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LIVE THREAD: Estrada Filibuster 03/07/03
http://freerepublic.com ^ | March 7, 2003

Posted on 03/07/2003 6:06:06 AM PST by Howlin

Link to C-Span



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: estrada; gop; judiciary; senate
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To: Howlin
Debate is related to Iraq. No votes scheduled for the day. Whatever happen vis-a--vis the Estrada confirmation is not formally "on the docket."

That doesn't mean Frist and GOP couldn't apply more pressure in various ways, but if they have a plan to do so, it isn't in the open.

21 posted on 03/07/2003 6:32:54 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Republic
Yesterday, with the news of Bin Laden's capture being widely circulated, Rush went on and on about how the Democrats were setting themselves up for a major fall.

I thought to myself, "Gee, for being a bunch of clueless idiots they sure seem to be successfully rolling the Republicans."

At the very least, Republicans should demand Democrats follow actual filibuster rules since Democrats have violated a long standing tradition of not blocking nominations. And, if they should find their misplaced calcium supplements they should lock out every Democrat lobbyist - starting with Mrs. Daschle.

22 posted on 03/07/2003 6:34:37 AM PST by Nephi (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: Cboldt
Monday - debate on a different nominee, then debate on a ban on killing newborn babies (people).

Hmmmm. Estrada is not on the formal horizon. My guess is that the weekend shows will be all-Iraq.

I suppose, in light of the President's press conference last night, if the GOP ran out and yammered about Estrada, it (the GOP) would be perceived as out of touch with the present issue. In other words, laying low for a few days, or until we commence militaray action in Iraq, is probably the wiser course.

23 posted on 03/07/2003 6:36:46 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Howlin
Just what is advise and consent, anyway?

Couldn't the President use a letter stating their consent from a majority of Senators as his consent?

Why is an actual vote needed?

I would like to see President Bush have Estrada sworn in and when the minority challenge this, he can say that he has already received the advise and consent of the majority of the Senate. Then he could show them the letter that was signed by 55 Senators.

Even if there are Senate rules requiring a vote, they would have to sue , and I don't see how the court would view a minority filibuster as constitutional when it comes to naming nominees.

Is this a strategy that could possibly work?

24 posted on 03/07/2003 6:50:22 AM PST by TravisBickle
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To: Howlin
Thanks for the ping
25 posted on 03/07/2003 6:55:08 AM PST by firewalk
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To: anniegetyourgun
I didn't even get the decency of a response to my e-mail.

Maybe we FL Freepers have overwhelmed him! Here's hoping!

26 posted on 03/07/2003 6:56:42 AM PST by livius
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To: mabelkitty
Good Morning! Busy day -- Senate and the UN!
27 posted on 03/07/2003 6:57:52 AM PST by PhiKapMom
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To: Cboldt
In other words, laying low for a few days, or until we commence militaray action in Iraq, is probably the wiser course.

I agree with your analogy. Should be interesting when they bring PBA to the floor! People will get a chance to see the maddog RATs really go into a full force attack. Wonder if they will filibuster that since they know the President will sign?

28 posted on 03/07/2003 7:00:11 AM PST by PhiKapMom
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To: PhiKapMom
A few of the 24/7 crowd are out and about today. Can you imagine if the Senate was on Estrada, while the President and "one-issue-at-a-time" press was on Iraq? It sure could be used to damage the GOP-Senate leadership's credibility (and if it could be used, it would be used).

Even in that light, the mantra is the same "24/7 or wimps." It's, ummm, interesting to watch. I've been posting once, and then expressing "we'll just have to agree to disagree, I am resolute in my opinion that 24/7 is not a wise course at this time."

29 posted on 03/07/2003 7:04:53 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: TravisBickle
What's wrong with a recess appointment? It requires 51 votes and we've got at least 55. Who can legitimately complain?
30 posted on 03/07/2003 7:06:47 AM PST by chiller (could be wrong, but doubt it)
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To: chiller
they will say they won't get paid.
31 posted on 03/07/2003 7:08:07 AM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: Howlin

32 posted on 03/07/2003 7:09:49 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Saddam! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
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To: Howlin
Mornin', btw ! . . .
33 posted on 03/07/2003 7:10:28 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Saddam! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
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To: Cboldt
Do you have on the Senate hearing right now? I just heard Sen Stevens of Alaska say that France is guilty of internation treason by selling spare parts to Iraq for their Mirage aircraft around the embargo.

Never have seen him so mad.

There is no way we could force the RATs into 24/7 at this point in time. What I am hearing from Ted Stevens and Sen Warner on Iraq, France, and Germany are what is needed for today and Estrada needs put on the backburner. Anyone not realizing that, wants Republicans to take the hit IMHO!
34 posted on 03/07/2003 7:11:24 AM PST by PhiKapMom
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To: PhiKapMom
I have it on, but am not paying any attention to it. Thanks for the quick snippet.

Not only would the GOP-leadership look bad if they started 24/7 today, they would now be backing off the 24/7 pressure if they had (somehow, nobody has explained to me how they do this, or how to follow through, but notwithstanding that) started continuous Senate sessions earlier this week.

35 posted on 03/07/2003 7:20:27 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: chiller
The problem I see with a recess appointment is that it is only temporary, until the President's term is over.

Also, it doesn't solve the problem that the minority party will be able to hold up nominees. By simply swearing him in now, that pulls the rug out of the minority view.

I think a showdown would be good in the long run. It could possibly take some of the power away from a Senate that has become too beholden to a minority of ideologues.

36 posted on 03/07/2003 7:20:41 AM PST by TravisBickle
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To: TomGuy
This fillibuster has little to do with Estrada's qualifications. Rather, it is a powerplay. If the Democrats succeed in
stopping his nomination, they effectively can control the Senate, even though they are the minority. This effort is
about control. If the Republicans bend/blink, they lose--not only this nomination, but also effective majority control
of the Senate.

----

This is why the GOP needs to go 24/7.

37 posted on 03/07/2003 7:21:50 AM PST by WOSG (Liberate Iraq!!)
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To: PhiKapMom
"There is no way we could force the RATs into 24/7 at this point in time. What I am hearing from Ted Stevens and Sen Warner on Iraq, France, and Germany are what is needed for today and Estrada needs put on the backburner. Anyone not realizing that, wants Republicans to take the hit IMHO!"

Frist,(unlike certain naysayers) has been precient,
study, and cool, in guideing the R's through the
mine field of the dem filibuster.

He is on the same page as the President.
38 posted on 03/07/2003 7:23:24 AM PST by woodyinscc
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To: WOSG
If the Republicans bend/blink, they lose--not only this nomination, but also effective majority control
of the Senate.

----

This is why the GOP needs to go 24/7.

.......
we have lost control of the senate and no one knows it but us.......what ever the democrats do not want they can now stop......whatever they agree with they can let get thru..sad day in America...

39 posted on 03/07/2003 7:25:20 AM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: Miss Marple
I believe it is important to make folks realize that a quick move to a "24/7 filibuster is an unwise strategy at this point in time. This may be a long post, but please allow me to explain why.

While one would think that the rules place a heavier burden on the filibustering party, the rules of the senate actually place a heavier burden of the GOP, a burden that requires that the GOP have a great deal of discipline and fortitude.

The rules regarding filibuster are certainly onerous on the senator trying to maintain the floor and this onus would be problematic if only one senator was seeking to filibuster a bill back in the days before the advent of cloture petitions. However, when a group of 40 to 45 senators with the backing of its party leader seeks to filibuster, the pressure of a 24/7 situation can be evenly distributed on the shoulders of its members.

The party seeking to break the filibuster must do more than obtain 60 votes to invoke cloture, they must jump particular procedural hurdles during a 24/7 situation. In that 24/7 situation, the filibustering party need only keep one, at most two senators on the floor at a time during a filibuster.

However, the rules of the senate allow a senator to suggest the absense of a quorum at any time. Such a motion cannot be debated and is not subject to a vote. The presiding officer must direct the clerk to call the roll. If there are not at least fifty-one senators present after the roll call, the chair must immediately adjourn the senate until the next day. Adjournment is not subject to debate or vote, undermining the purpose behind a 24/7 status in the first place.

If the GOP wants to force the Dems into a 24/7 mode and avoid adjournment, it has to be committed to having all of its senators available in their offices or the cloakroom 24/7 to respond to the inevitable quorum call at 3:30 on a Sunday morning. Meanwhile, the Dems need only keep a rotating skeleton crew of senators available to hold the floor and to act as sentries if the GOP tries to make a parliamentary move.

As such, the rules actually place a heavier burden on the party seeking to break the filibuster than the party seeking to maintain it.

Given the rules and the onus placed on the party seeking to break a filibuster, it would be extremely difficult to keep 51 GOP senators at this level of preparedness for an extended period of time. At this point in time, the GOP only has 4 Dem votes in favor of cloture. And the point of going 24/7 is to bring at least 5 more on board. However, the GOP would only be able to maintain a 24/7 level of preparedness for several days at most.

If the GOP went 24/7 now as it appears stuck at 55, and it came up short of the 60 votes needed after going 24/7 for several days, it would have to beat a retreat, a move that could demoralize some of its forces, particularly the Dems bucking their party leadership, only strengthening the resolve and the position of the Dems and giving little motivation for Dems to cross the aisle.

For these reasons, the 24/7 tactic is only practical when the GOP is very close to getting the 60 votes necessary to invoke cloture. I would say that such a move would be advisable only when the GOP has 58 or 59 votes in favor of cloture.

The second problem facing the GOP is timing. With the headlines focused on the imminent war in Iraq it would appear impossible to get the Estrada filibuster on the front burner of public attention, no matter how egregious the Democrats' tactics have been. By continuing to file for cloture, that could keep the matter ripe for exploitation until the war has abated and public attention and outrage could be directed more effectively to the nomination. In addition, once the war is successfully prosecuted, Bush will no doubt have a more envigorated storehouse of political capital.

40 posted on 03/07/2003 7:56:44 AM PST by Don'tMessWithTexas
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