Help: I Need Some Moral Reasons Why We Should Not Legislate Religious Morality

self ^ | 2-7-2003 | self

[Physicist]

Help: I Need Some Moral Reasons Why We Should Not Legislate Religious Morality

Because you can never be sure who constitutes "we".

[StriperSniper]

None may assault, murder, rob, defraud. But all other mutually voluntary associations are permitted.

Is it true that that is what Jefferson's first draft for the Constitution looked like?;-)

[Antoninus]

All laws are based on morality - from traffic laws to laws against murder....Religious morality is a legitimate basis for laws.

I agree with this assessment. Laws are based on a society's moral code. That moral code springs from the philosophy that underpins the society--be it Christianity, Islam, secular humanism, or atheistic communism.

Personally, I'd rather live in a society where Christian morality (which Thomas Jefferson called "the closest to perfect") was the basis for the laws. That's not a theocracy. It's simply what we had and are now in the process of losing. Libertarianism, divoced from Christian morality, is unworkable in real world conditions.

[Antoninus]

Oops! Sorry, I didn't realize that you HAVE to take this side in a debate. Wow, that stinks. I think I'd just take a dive.

[DannyTN]

"The context we have been given are conscientious objector and religious use of illegal drugs Supreme Court cases. " You can point out in a free society that provisions or exceptions can be made. Jehovah Witnesses (wrongly in my opinion)refused to fight in wars, the government allowed them to work behind the lines. I think provisions were made for some Indians with regard to traditional use of certain drugs. But these has a long historical history. The problem here is if you make the exception how do you prevent new religions from popping up which claim a religious right to drugs.

[MonroeDNA]

Don't confuse religeon with believing in God.

Our rights are God given, but no religeon is required. You don't have to subscribe to a religeon to be moral.

[Kay Ludlow]

All we can realistically legislate is behavior. We can't legistate what people think. Morality is the guide to what we THINK, there we can't legislate it. We can only legislate behavior, which can come from immorality OR ammorality - it doesn't matter when you legislate behavior what the cause is.

[Nateman]

With Faith any evil is possible since no proof is required for a given value's acceptance as a standard. A true morality must be based on truth, or on the "Real World". You need reason to judge the right from the wrong, feelings and whim won't cut it. Unless your choice of values can win out in a "Court of Reason" with logic and facts to uphold the outcome, you've have got nothing but a "Witch Trail" with only superstitions passing verdict.

[RLK]

Most law is religious morality. Laws against murder, for example, are essentially religious doctrine. In various other parts of the world people kill each other all the time and even eatch each other. If I were to ask the average person why we should have laws against murder, he would have a difficult time giving me an answer.

[MonroeDNA]

People who search deep in their hearts realize that God is always urging us in a certain direction. Religeons form when people attempt to codify these faint, persistent winds.

Unfortunately, people always put their own spin on it, and fail in a bunch of ways. Usually they come up with a bunch of rules.

I think the ten commandments is a really, really good shot.

But please don't think that morality comes from religeon. It doesn't. Morality comes from listening to God. Religeons come from people.

[MissAmericanPie]

Love of God and obedience to God is self determined and a free commitment or it means nothing. A Christian can warn of the consequences and the removal of God's blessings towards societies and nations that reject Him and reject morality, but to legislate another's behaviour is tyranny. So is forcing citizens to participate via their taxes in the murder of tax funded abortions, but that is the other side of the coin.

The tyranny of those without morals grows because they place no such restrictions to repect opposing views on themselves that they demand from others. This becomes more obvious every day as they scream over more conservative views coming to the forefront and display their intolerance after weasling for years that their crack pot ideas should be tolerated by the moral. Christians do have the right to organize and influence government the same as everyone else as long as they are careful not to impose tyranny on others. It is a tightrope to be walked with wisdom.

[Notwithstanding]

If you plan to malign the Church, you may wish to get the facts of your canard straight.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

If you read my reply #21 again you will see I specified "super" majority.

[DannyTN]

If you plan to malign the Church, you may wish to get the facts of your canard straight. I have the greatest respect for the church but not the Roman Catholic hierachy, which itself has admitted to having faulty leadership at times, anti-popes and such. Please tell me what I got wrong?

[Antoninus]

Was is true religion when the Roman Catholics told Galileo the earth was flat? No, Galileo acknowledged the truthfullness of scriptures but held the interpreters in error.

Uh, careful with the "common knowledge" BS. To my knowledge, the dispute between the Catholic Church and Galileo(who argued against the geocentric universe and for the Copernican heliocentric system, not for a round Earth) was over his insistence that his theory was TRUTH rather than just a theory. And FYI, Martin Luther also condemned the Copernican system and Galileo himself died a Roman Catholic and was buried in consecrated ground within the church of Santa Croce in Florence.

[Arthur McGowan]

ALL laws enforce SOME moral command. Laws against bank robbery are based on the Seventh Commandment. Laws against rape are based on the Sixth Commandment. Laws against homicide are based on the Fifth Commandment.

It is nonsense to say "You can't legislate morality." That's not an argument. All laws legislate morality.

The real question is When is a law destructive of the common good? A law that cannot be enforced, or would require a police state for its enforcement, would be destructive of the common good.

Thus, "you can't legislate morality" is a bogus argument against outlawing abortion. Since abortion is homicide, outlawing it is clearly in the interest of the common good. Anyone who wants it to be legal has to demonstrate that abortion laws are destructive of the common good, as, say, a law requiring every citizen to recite the Rosary every day would be destructive of the common good.

A person who wants abortion to be legal has to argue that outlawing it is destructive to society. "You can't legislate morality" is nothing but a dishonest slogan.

[DannyTN]

In rereading my comments, I realized what is so objectionable. My apologies.

I did not intend to imply that Roman Catholicism was not Christianity or that Christianity is not the true religion. I meant to imply that the singular belief about the earth being the center of the universe was false, but they imposed that belief on everyone else or at least Galileo.

And you are right, it wasn't about the flat earth it was about the heliocentric system.

[Jael]

Ok, you mean like murder and stuff should be ok?

[DannyTN]

"ALL laws enforce SOME moral command."

How are laws authorizing pork barrel projects enforcing some moral command?

[APBaer]

Pardon me if I savor the irony of your situation.
From your frequent posts you have appeared to be as fervent as as any Taliban as you have tried to force your views of what is moral on others.

From that I can see how you would now feel "shafted" in having to argue this side of the issue.