Ritter Wasn't "Set-Up" as Crtics Decry -- and Here's Why

self | 1-22-03 | WL-law

[WL-law]

Much has been chatted (see, i.e., Raimundo's latest screed, but also including thinkers on the right) about how Ritter was "set up" in an oh-so-obvious attempt to silence a Bush critic.

Putting aside the problem of TIMELINES and CAUSE-EFFECT metaphysical problems with that critique, I want to address another problematic aspect -- that the critics think that punishing an "attempt" crime is overreaching, and hence it is evidence of police conspiracy. Thes critics fundamentally misunderstand the notion and retionale for criminalizing "attempted crimes' in our criminal law system.

"Attempt" crimes are a morally legitimate and necessary part of the criminal law -- otherwise, one could never stop an obviously and imminently "intended" act and punish the actor -- you'd have to let the. i.e., murderer shoot the victim before you pulled your gun and said "drop it!"

The key issue in the solicitation case is whether Ritter's intention was provably to actually engage in his activities with an underage girl -- because he could argue that, i.e., he thought the on-line chat partner was a homosexual male and they were just role playing.

Another key is that the attemptor -- Ritter -- has to commit a "penultimate act" -- i.e., the last necessary overt act before the crime itself -- as part of the 'theory' and thus the key statutory element for punishable attempt crimes. And the logic is, since we're punishing a person for something they INTENDED to do, but hadn't done yet, we want to be sure that they were serious in their intent and were not likely to change their decision -- hence we want to see that the last preparatory act was committed.

In both requirements Ritter was caught red-handed.

First, the "decoy" undercover cop was presumably in the restaurant, and presumably looked underage, and presumably (from what I've gleaned from the reports) Ritter continued to 'engage' rather than withdraw -- hence he can't claim the defense of play-acting.

Second, going to the restaurant is the serious-furtherance-of-the-crime ACT that takes idle chat on a computer into the realm of real, imminent, dangerous actions that society is morally right in punishing "as if" the crime itself was already committed.

This is a heightened concern when Ritter's prior behavior is considered.

So the charge of 'set-up is baseless.

[Atlas Sneezed]

""Attempt" crimes are a morally legitimate and necessary part of the criminal law -- otherwise, one could never stop an obviously and imminently "intended" act and punish the actor -- you'd have to let the. i.e., murderer shoot the victim before you pulled your gun and said "drop it!""

While I don't dispute most of what you say, the proper model for attempted murder is when one assaults someone intending to kill them, but the attempt fails to actually kill them. The "cop on the scene preventing the crime" is a rare and less-helpful example.

[cynicom]

Times are bad when a pervert on the left cannot have any privacy.

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[jlogajan]

the proper model for attempted murder is when one assaults someone intending to kill them, but the attempt fails to actually kill them.

So if someone is asking around for a contract killer, it would be morally improper, in your view, to hook them up with an undercover cop?

[WL-law]

While I don't dispute most of what you say, the proper model for attempted murder is when one assaults someone intending to kill them, but the attempt fails to actually kill them. The "cop on the scene preventing the crime" is a rare and less-helpful example.

I accept that criticism -- perhaps a more colorful example would have been better. Although I don't think that "pulling the trigger" is the only culpable 'penultimate act', and if I was the intended victim of a preventable crime I would really hope that that was not the state of the law.

[joesnuffy]

Pedophilc -Traitors....
They want "the right" to abort children and when they cant they want "the right" to molest them......
Then the llberals "world views" push children into lifestyles that cause out of wedlock pregnancy-
The the cycle is complete and the liberals push abortion on or encourage out of wedlock children and single moms with children of multiple fathers...
Kids without knowning a fathers love are perfect targets for the Ritters of this world...
The USA populated with Kids without a clue...without values....Who will ultimately..VOTE DEMOCRAT
Ritter....another...perfect....Liberal Icon

[dead]

Raimondo's just jealous that Ritter didn't hit on him.

[Tacis]

Come on! Set up? Bush critic? The issue isn't that he is a Bush critic. There are lots of the from Shaun Penn to Eleanor Clift to Pat Leahy, and many, many in between. Why set Ritter up? What would be accomplished?

The only question about Ritter is why he went from a seemingly rational observer of the WMD that Sadaam has, to a Saddam supporter as willing to accept his outrageous lies as a black Congressman willing to accept Willie's lies about Lewinski.

It is the change in Ritter that is key. Why the change? HE WAS BLACKMAILED!!! By BUsh? Why?

No, Ritter was probably being blackmailed by Sadaam's people working in the US (probably, all Saudis) who probably had evidence, not for Conn., but from when Ritter was in Iraq.

Ritter did this twice over 2 months (that we know about). My bet is that he has long been a pervert.

[syriacus]

Scott Ritter's secret isn't only out of the closet...

Scott Ritter's secret is out of the bathroom...

The UPI says:

"Ritter, a 41-year-old native of Gainesville, Fla., whose full name is William Scott Ritter Jr., has lived in the Albany suburb of Delmar with his wife and their twin daughters for two years."

---

I hope his wife keeps a watchful eye out for their daughters.

[Blood of Tyrants]

I have always wondered why the penalty for attempted murder is less than murder. That the guy who kidnaps, rapes, cuts a young girl's arms off with an ax, and leaves her for dead would get a LESSER sentence than if the girl had died really burns my butt. God help anyone who tried to protect a person who did something like that to my loved one.

[Just mythoughts]

I agree this is a long time problem, look at the type of people the UN hires, however, I don't see foreign fingers on this change, but democrat hands, how else could records be sealed.

Mr. Ritter got quite a chewing by the democrats when he testified before the Congress over inspections. He was saying the exact opposite of what the dems wanted to hear and in a sense got a warning, sounds like they knew something about him then and so long as he play the role they set for him they kept his secrets hidden.

[bvw]

Yes, and if they pay money or provide some other clear exchange of value, with words clearly intending that the hired "killer" go and kill someone -- bim bam boom -- a crime.

But that alone is not perfect. For the actor playing the "hired killer" and accomplices could have lured and goaded the perp on in a conspriracy (a conspriracy of the police) to set up the perp. This does happen. It is NOT clear that the perp would have ever taken matters as far as were taken without the playacting that tempts him to it.

What crime happened here? Ritter went to a Burger King where an ADULT woman waited for him. Did he think she was underage? Well, acting is hard, I say. While the intent of the police was to appear as if they were a "14 year old", there are many nuances even in an on-line chat that could have consicously or sub-consciously clued Ritter in to the idea he was actually engaging with and adult. Furthermore the police are consciously engaged in trapping behaviour and that colors the play-acting conversation as well.

[John Lenin]

Now Riter is a full fledged liberal, you can't be a liberal until you show how morally bankrupt you are .

[WL-law]

It is the change in Ritter that is key. Why the change? HE WAS BLACKMAILED!!! By BUsh? Why?

Blackmail is a possibility -- but there is another, as I hypothesized on a prior post at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/825985/posts, -- namely, that once caught by the police, Ritter unilaterally transformed his politics because he implicitly knew that, when he was eventually outed, that the right would reject him irrespective of his politics, but the left would embrace him as long as he was a former-conservative who had "grown", i.e. adopted the dem line. I call this the "Democrat's pet republican" syndrome outlined by Ann Coulter in "Slander".

[steve50]

When are we supposed to see the police reports on the case?

[Catspaw]

So it's not a crime for a 41 year old man to engage in explicit sex talk with a 14 year old AND show up at a Burger King with the anticipation he was going to have said 14 year old watch him masturbate?

[Catspaw]

When Ritter allows the police reports to be unsealed.

Don't hold your breath.

[bvw]

There was NO 14 year old ... only adults playacting the part of a 14 year old.

[Starrgaizr]

One rationale is that if someone, in a fit of rage, tries to kill you and fails, you don't want them to then think that their punishment will be the same whether they finish you off or not, while finishing you off leaves one fewer witness. It provides incremental deterrence.