Illinois governor to empty death row

USA Today ^ | 01/07/03 | Richard Willing

[PowerTee]

NEW YORK -- Robert Blecker sat quietly as other professors ticked off their reasons for opposing the death penalty: It's unfair to blacks. It doesn't really deter crime. Innocent people could be executed.

But Blecker, a professor at New York Law School, was having none of it. When it was his turn to speak at the recent death-penalty forum at John Jay College, he summed up his support for executions in three words: ''Barbara Jo Brown.''

[Bryan]

What he's actually saying is, "I want a Nobel Peace Prize desperately."

And the way to get a Nobel Peace Prize has already been demonstrated by Jimmy Carter: make friends with Fidel Castro and, in general, do everything in your power to embarass and frustrate American conservatives. After Ryan's trip to Cuba, he was already thinking of that big trip to Oslo.

[Bryan]

Hey, they all had trials. If one or two guilty guys get fried, let God sort it out. Honestly, how many people who are arrested are innocent? Damn few.

If you, or your teenaged son, were one of the innocent people facing the death penalty, I think you'd be just a wee bit more concerned about its accurate administration.

[DeweyCA]

What Ryan is really saying is that he wants to be remembered for this act, rather than for his corruption. This is mainly a PR stunt to try to leave a different legacy.

[fatima]

Thank for the ping Bryan.

[JCG]

Yes, Ryan seems to be saying, "You may be innocent, so I'm going to make sure you spend the rest of your life in prison instead of killing you right now."

That reminds me of Senator John Kerry's view of capital punishment. He is against it (surprise, surprise) because he believes life without parole is a much more severe and horrendous punishment. But, when asked about executions for terrorists he said that he favored that. In other words, Kerry favors less severe punishment for terrorists than for common murderers. Some logic, eh?

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
New Link: Download 8 Mb zip file here (60 minute video)

Who is Steve Emerson?

[Mr_Magoo]

As I said on another thread . . .

My take on this is that Ryan's own crimes are going to catch up with him and he knows it. He just made 156 "protectors" for his sorry ass when he ends up in prison.

[AFPhys]

Thanks for the ping, Bryan... as for my take on this, I reiterate what I wrote in another thread:

I do not expect any part of our society to be 100% perfect, and do not demand that of our court system. There are myriad safeguards built into the system to prevent innocent executions, and all in all they work well. The most egregious fault of this is that the process takes so long that the deterrent effect is greatly diminished.

I yearn for the days represented in the movie version of Heinlein's Starship Troopers. The man who murdered someone that morning was tried that afternoon and executed that evening. This is the way to deal with murderers and others who deserve the death penalt

[elbucko]

Honestly, how many people who are arrested are innocent? Damn few.

That is called "Mexican Justice". If you are arrested in Mexico, you must be guilty by virtue of your arrest. It is then left up to your family to prove your innocence, or bribe the system. It's also known as "Napoleonic Law" or "Continental Law" because the French and other European countries use, or used to use, this form of legal principal.

The US is supposed to operate under English Common Law. That is you are innocent until proven guilty by the state.

I think you would be a happy camper in Mexico. Why don't you move there?

[Uri’el-2012]

JCG; aruanan

a>Yes, Ryan seems to be saying, "You may be innocent, so I'm going to make sure you spend the rest of your life in prison instead of killing you right now."

JCG>That reminds me of Senator John Kerry's view of capital punishment. He is against it (surprise, surprise) because he believes life without parole is a much more severe and horrendous punishment. But, when asked about executions for terrorists he said that he favored that. In other words, Kerry favors less severe punishment for terrorists than for common murderers. Some logic, eh?

................

25 posted on 01/11/2003 5:15 PM MST by JCG

Has no one considered the position of G-d ?

Genesis 9:5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I
will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each
man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.
Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be
shed; for in the image of God has God made man.

Just a thought as this Nation was founded as a Christian Republic based on the Laws of G-d.

chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

[Blood of Tyrants]

Innocent people could be executed.

But they have no problem with keeping an "innocent" person in prison for the rest of their life?

[unspun]

Well... I think the idea is that there would potentially be plenty of time for review of their cases.

[Myrddin]

If any single one of these individuals kills again, Ryan should be charged as an accessory. He alone made it possible.

[Victoria Delsoul]

Soon after executions resumed, studies suggested that blacks were more likely than whites to receive death sentences, especially when their victims were white. Other studies compared murder rates in the 38 death-penalty states with lower rates in the 12 states that don't have the penalty, and concluded that capital punishment does not deter homicides.

The death penalty is not a deterrent per se, but a just punishment for a heinous crime. By eliminating some of the repeat offenders we reduce the number of violent murders. The problem with capital punishment since it has been reinstated in 1976 is that it is not enforced by the criminal justice system. Limiting the number of appeals could save time and money so justice can be done.

After all, why should we care about a murderer who has taken someone's life? Some crimes are so atrocious that the only adequate punishment is the death penalty. For those who said that life is precious, I said, yes indeed it is, and murder destroys that precious life. Therefore, the death penalty is a fair punishment, it means that we value the victim's life enough to fully punish the killer.

[supercat]

Limiting the number of appeals could save time and money so justice can be done.

The people on death row are supposedly those whose guilt is most certain. If one wishes to free innocent people, wouldn't it make more sense to focus resources on those who have "merely" been sentenced to life without parole?

Society right now in on the wrong side of a feedback loop: the more crimes are committed, the less likely it is that criminals will face punishment; this in turn leads to more crimes, which in turn means criminals are less likely to face punishment.

Meanwhile, the overcrowded court systems are such that being accused of a crime is extremely punishing even for those who are acquitted. And don't get me started on plea-bargains.

Rolling back the drug war would do a lot to help society focus on the more serious crimes which are committed; any resulting reduction in the number of crimes would in turn reduce the number of innocent people convicted.

Consider two hypothetical towns: Town #1 has 10 murders per year, and convicts someone for 9; 1% of these convictions get the wrong guy. Town #2 has 100 murders per year, and convicts someone for 80. Only 0.1% of those convictions net the wrong guy.

In which town are more innocent people put to death?

[PowerTee]

Re. "48% accuracy rate" . . . whose definition of accurate? The question for me is, did the accused commit the homicide, not whether he had a dream team mbr. as trial counsel or whether his trial was flawless, or whether some poor prosecutor was able to perfectly complete the D.P.Statute obstacle courses that anti-D.P. folks have fashioned.
The bottom line is, yes, any system involving people will be somewhat flawed, but are there reasonable safeguards in place? Is THE SYSTEM itself materially flawed? To a governor searching for some semblance of a legacy, the answer was "yes." To appellate courts searching for some excuse to overturn a death sentence, the answer was "yes." I don't believe that your system was as flawed as the mainstream media and Liberals would like, but it was flawed enough to demagogue. And I'm sorry, but sticking a thumb in the eye of earnest prosecutors, IL's citizens, and victims of murder is not the way to ensure that the "Rolando Cruz" case never happens again. Libs are just using this as a pretext.

[PowerTee]

"Society right now in on the wrong side of a feedback loop: the more crimes are committed, the less likely it is that criminals will face punishment; this in turn leads to more crimes, which in turn means criminals are less likely to face punishment."

I disagree. The more serious we are about prosecuting crime, even "minor" crime, the more deterrence we get.

Criminals generally do a crude type of cost/benefit analysis and when we're squishy on prosecuting, they push do as much as they can. Just ask New Yorkers about how cracking down on "petty crimes" affected their overall crime rate.

[jonathonandjennifer]

Let's hope that at least one of those pardoned and freed moves in next door to george ryan.

In light of George Ryan's likely indictment in the "Licenses for Bribes" scandal, he may be moving in next door to some convicts that he DIDN'T let out!

Unfortunately, I don't really beleive that. He's not one of us "regular people", as John Edwards would say.

[Victoria Delsoul]

I agree with your post. Since 1973, less than 70 people who were sentenced to death have been declared innocent, so the possibility of executing innocent people does exist but is clearly small.

[hunter112]

Honestly, how many people who are arrested are innocent?

I can believe that there are some innocent people who are arrested. That's why we have a system of court trials, juries, laws, and appeals courts. But by the time some scum makes it all the way to death row, he's invariably the worst of the worst. Now, a few more correctional officers will die, and many will be injured, because the worst of the worst know they can get away with anything they do.

I'd love to see our correctional people have a day to go postal on the worst 25%.

[supercat]

"Society right now in on the wrong side of a feedback loop: the more crimes are committed, the less likely it is that criminals will face punishment; this in turn leads to more crimes, which in turn means criminals are less likely to face punishment."

I disagree. The more serious we are about prosecuting crime, even "minor" crime, the more deterrence we get.

I don't disagree with your statement, but don't see how it contradicts mine. The problem is that right now we have so much crime that the police are overwhelmed and can only do anything about a small portion of it; this in turn causes more crime, which in turn overloads the police more severely, etc.

If the police could in fact make a serious effort to go after real crimes, even minor ones, this would reduce crime rates and free up more police resources to go after even more real crimes, etc. Unfortunately, the police would rather go after a 99.44% law-abiding gun owner whose gun has been declared politically-incorrect than go after real criminals.