[Forgiven_Sinner]

Good article comparing Tolkien and Wagner. He did get one thing wrong: Sauron did not make, nor help the Elves make their rings. Sauron shared his knowledge with the Elves and vice versa, until he knew enough to make the One Ring. It was designed to dominate the Elvish rings, but not because he had helped the Elves make them.

[TomSmedley]

Wow! Excellent post! Thanks!

[BlueLancer]

Good article ... good find ...

I must say though that, after some 40 years of playing in bands and orchestras (grade school, high school, college, and community), I have always liked Wagner's music, particularly "The Flying Dutchman Overture", "Overture from Die Meistersinger von Nurnburg", and portions from "Das Ring des Nibelungen" .. Ride of the Valkyrie specifically .. because of the power behind the notes. Over my 40 years, I have performed Wagner's music on clarinet, alto, tenor, and baritone saxophone, bass clarinet, tuba, and percussion and I have never ceased to be amazed at the amazing scope of the music.

My computer boots up in the morning to "Ride of the Valkyrie" and shuts down to Mozart's "Der Holle Rache Kocht In Meinem Herzen" (Queen of the Night, "The Magic Flute)performed by Kiri Te Kanawa.

It's probably no coincidence that my co-workers look at me a little strangely.

[Mamzelle]

The Catholic Oxford liguist takes his eternal revenge on Nietche! Fascinating.

[Taliesan]

Interesting read. Bump.

[Imal]

A fascinating analysis. Great post!

[icwhatudo]

For three hundred years the Mírdain - as the Jewel-smiths of Eregion were known - studied at Annatar's (Sauron's) side, and learned the making of magical rings. In about the year II 1500, the first of the Rings of Power was forged. Over the following decades, with Annatar's help, the Elves made sixteen Rings of Power, each set with a gemstone.

Both the Elves and Annatar had their own secret aims, though, and each forged work of their own. Celebrimbor and the Elves made Three Rings more powerful than the others, Narya, Nenya and Vilya, the Rings of Fire, Water and Air. While Sauron made the "one ring".

[Arkinsaw]

Excellent article, very good. Thanks.

[Sam Cree]

" The Ring of Power itself is Wagner's invention (probably derived from the German Romantic de la Motte Fouque)."

This statement by the author is also apparently incorrect, as rings of power were not invented by the above, but are scattered not only throughout the Norse legends that were Tolkien's (and Wagner's) inspirations, but also are to be found in many other, including Celtic, mythologies, all of which far predate Wagner and de la Motte.

[fporretto]

I find only one point to quarrel with:

To be sure, The Lord of the Rings is not a great work of literature to be compared to Cervantes or Dostoyevsky.

"To be sure" -- ? And why is that? The novel is beautifully written, its pacing is near-perfect, its characterizations and character evolutions shine, and its themes will resonate down through the ages. So what's missing?

Why is it that everyone feels the need to put these denigratory qualifications on any praise of a popular book -- even when the popular book has all the virtues of any novel ever written?

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason:
http://palaceofreason.com

[RogueIsland]

In Wagner's "Ring" libretto, Alberich even proclaims himself "Lord of the Ring", IIRC.

[The Iguana]

I'm not sure I buy all the parallels cooked up here.

For one thing, the Eldar - the Elves - were doomed to leave Middle Earth regardless of the Rings' fate.

That wasn't true of the gods in Wagner's Ring.

[Elenya]

Boorish and gruff as the new American Empire might seem, it is an anti-empire populated by reluctant heroes who want nothing more than to till their fields and mind their homes, much like Tolkien's Hobbits. Under pressure, though, it will respond with a fierceness and cohesion that will surprise its adversaries.

Excellent!

[weikel]

He got another thing wrong. Tolkien despised Democracy he stated that his preference was either for anarchy or an "unconstitutional"( absolute) monarchy( which in practice tends to be the most libertarian form of government).

[Centurion2000]

bump

[junta]

That last paragraph is fancy daydreaming by the author. To compare Tolkien's created world with our country is a travesty, faulty logic 180 degrees off center. Where is LaBelleDameSansMerci when we need her literary sense?

[Alouette]

Great article. I noticed the similarities between LOTR and Der Ring Des Nibelungen a long time ago. It's my opinion that both Tolkien and Wagner based their works on the same mythic elements.

Peter Jackson is probably well aware of the similarities. In particular, by having Arwen instead of Glorfindel carry Frodo to the ford shows a parallel to the valkyrie Brunnhilde.

[victim soul]

"Boorish and gruff as the new American Empire might seem, it is an anti-empire populated by reluctant heroes who want nothing more than to till their fields and mind their homes, much like Tolkien's Hobbits. Under pressure, though, it will respond with a fierceness and cohesion that will surprise its adversaries."

[Dead Dog]

"The New Man would be fearless, sensual, unconstrained, and could make the world according to his will."

The basis of Communism, Nazism, or any other Liberalism. And also a basic principle of satinism, specifically "Be your own God".

[Redcloak]

There are a few things wrong with the analogy. The Elves don't leave the world. They "go into the West", to Valinor, but are still in the world. They are part of the world, hence their immortality. (Men, on the other hand, are not tied to the world the way the Elves are. They were given "the gift of death" by Illúvatar and thus leave the world.) The Elves don't leave Middle Earth "because of Sauron". They were called to Valinor by Manwë and the other Valar ages earlier. They weren't supposed to be in Middle Earth. Those that were there, the Moriquendi and the Noldor, were disobeying the Valar.

[x]

This is a great article. For us now, though, Tolkein does look derivative of Wagner. Maybe our grandchildren will see things differently. In his own day, Wagner, must have struck many as just an imitator of old myths.

But the problem with "Spengler's" article is that Wagner's own "Parzifal" has already been seen as an answer or response to the Ring and its worldview. The innocence, repentence, modesty, and chastity that the author celebrates in Tolkien already found their way into Wagner's later works.

The modest, unprepossessing "English" way in the arts was ridiculed by generations of aesthetes. Today, it's finally come into its own, and that's a good thing. But in art, final victories and final defeats are rare. So I don't think Wagner can be counted out.