A Discovery That's Just Too Perfect [James brother of Jesus Ossuary is a hoax-my title]

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-eisenman29oct29.story?null ^ | October 29, 2002 | Robert Eisenman

[Polycarp]

COMMENTARY

A Discovery That's Just Too Perfect

Claims that stone box held remains of Jesus' brother may be suspect.

By Robert Eisenman Robert Eisenman is the author of "James the Brother of Jesus" (Penguin, 1998) and a professor of Middle East religions and archeology at Cal State Long Beach.

October 29 2002

James, the brother of Jesus, was so well known and important as a Jerusalem religious leader, according to 1st century sources, that taking the brother relationship seriously was perhaps the best confirmation that there ever was a historical Jesus. Put another way, it was not whether Jesus had a brother, but rather whether the brother had a "Jesus."

Now we are suddenly presented with this very "proof": the discovery, allegedly near Jerusalem, of an ossuary inscribed in the Aramaic language used at that time, with "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." An ossuary is a stone box in which bones previously laid out in rock-cut tombs, such as those in the Gospels, were placed after they were retrieved by relatives or followers.

[joesnuffy]

Jesus said to his disciples when told his mother, brothers, and sisters had come to see him-
"Those who do my Father's Will, are my mother and brothers, and sisters indeed!

[BearCub]

Do Catholics believe that Jesus' mother Mary loved her son Jesus enough to VISIT Him at His tomb after He died? Or didn't she care enough about Him to bother even going to His tomb?

If so, show the Bible passage which SPECIFICLY states that Jesus' mother, Mary bothered to visit His tomb as He lay dead.

The fact that the Bible is silent on this issue is meaningless. You offered polycarp two hand-picked choices, neither one of which is necessarily the case.

Such a silly and faulty argument appears foolish.

[berned]

The only one who has FLED from truth they can't handle is Polycarp. I've asked him many many times to answer the simple question I posed in # 15.

He ran. He runs again now.

[joesnuffy]

Partisans fighting in the name of the enemy as just as much the enemy as the enemy is...
WE ARE AT WAR..AND THE WAR IS BEING WAGED ON U.S. SOIL
GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK ...CHICKEN HEARTED HEADS
Surrender or fight...make up your minds

[Irisshlass]

Your being ridiculous...go play with the calvinists..

[berned]

The Holy Spirit that wrote the Bible goes out of it's way to mention FOUR SPECIFIC WOMEN who cared enough about Jesus to visit His tomb.

1. Mary Magdalene

2. Joanna.

3. Salome (wife of Zebedee)

4. Mary --the Mother of JAMES and Joses.

Mat 13:

55 He's just a carpenter's son, and we know Mary, his mother, and his brothers--James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas

[BearCub]

The only one who has FLED from truth they can't handle is Polycarp. I've asked him many many times to answer the simple question I posed in # 15.

I don't think Jesus was really a person at all. As far as I know, the Bible only has him drinking water once, EVER! So the whole Jesus thing must be a hoax. What kind of idiot would believe stories about a guy that never drank water?!

[Petronski]

Dude, are you in the wrong thread?

[reformed_democrat]

The evidence fits too well therefore it can't be.

Not at all. The evidence does not show that this Ossuary is the genuine article.

This inscription seems pointed not at an ancient audience, who would have known who James (or Jacob, his Hebrew/Aramaic name) was, but at a modern one. If this box had simply said "Jacob the son of Joseph," it might pass muster. But ancient sources are not clear on who this Jacob's father really was. If the inscription had said "James the son of Cleophas," "Clopas or even "Alphaeus" (all three probably being interchangeable), I would have jumped for joy. But Joseph? This is what a modern audience, schooled in the Gospels, would expect, not an ancient one.

Also mentioned is the problem with continuety. Artifacts like this do not appear out of nowhere. Yet there is no record of it prior to its recent discovery.

I hesitate to embrace this as the real article, when the Shroud of Turin is still undergoing tests to determine whether or not the fabic alone was produced during the time of Christ. The Image on the Shroud has been scrutinized by every known method, yet researchers still cannot agree that the Image dates from the same time as the fabric, if the fabric is, indeed, from the time of Christ.

We have a long written record of the Shroud, as with all other religious artifacts deemed genuine. Even though we may not be able to place the items at the time of Christ, we do know where these items have been for the last thousand years.

I have a hard time believing this just "popped up." If we can find some documentation tracing it back even 500 years, I'd be inclined to be less sceptical.

[berned]

The King James renders that same verse thusly:

Mat 13:55Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Who is the Mary who went to Jesus tomb?

And why does Polycarp run every time I ask him this question?

[BearCub]

The Holy Spirit that wrote the Bible goes out of it's way to mention FOUR SPECIFIC WOMEN who cared enough about Jesus to visit His tomb.

So what? You're argument is still faulty. It is not a sound argument at all.

[william clark]

Seems to me that the article raises legitimate doubts, combined with a clear bias. For instance, the use of the phrase "brother of Jesus" instead of "James, the Just" or some such thing. It all depends on how James was regarded by the person in question, who (family member or not) may not have esteemed him in the same manner as he would be by others. Nevertheless, the fuzzy provenance of the box, combined with differences in the textual style, are exactly the sort of evidences honest believing Biblical scholars look for when seeking to authenticate an artifact or manuscript. It's fair game.

Bottom line is that we shouldn't go out on any limbs, nor make our faith dependent on an object.

[Irisshlass]

If you had more prayer in your life you would not worry about the war waged on US soil...calling us names doesn't accomplished anything...prayer does though..

[BearCub]

Oops - you're = your

Fingers faster than brain today...

[sinkspur]

I don't think Jesus was really a person at all. As far as I know, the Bible only has him drinking water once, EVER!

Exactly. In fact, the New Testament has Him drinking more wine than water. So what does that make Him?

If the Bible doesn't mention something, that must mean it didn't happen, right?

[Delbert]

Of course, I have already had one FReeper tell me that the appearance of this ossuary was a clear sign that the end times are upon us - so get ready for some pretty bitter posts.<---- Maybe...Maybe Not.....
One thing for sure is that it has gotten some great press lately and has spawned several discussions about Jesus in the media and around the world. And to me, that is a good thing. There are some people thinking about the reality of Christ that perhaps have not thought of this in a very long time. James is Dead, thats why he would need an ossuary. Jesus had no need for one...Thank God.

[VRWC_minion]

The Holy Spirit that wrote the Bible goes out of it's way to mention FOUR SPECIFIC WOMEN who cared enough about Jesus to visit His tomb.

Which of them were at the cross in danger of being arrested while he was dying ?

[Polycarp]

Whether this box really contains the bones

It contains no bones. Its empty.

[BearCub]

If the Bible doesn't mention something, that must mean it didn't happen, right?

You got it. He never went to the bathroom either - which I find unbelievable given how much wine he must have been drinking. I'm telling you, the whole thing is a hoax.

[Tired of Taxes]

I applaud you for your healthy skepticism. I also read your fictional story linked from your profile. Very well-written, imho, but I feel compelled to tell you that life becomes much more precious for many of us once we realize that there is no afterlife. The scenario in your story is just as frightening to me, an atheist, as it is to you.