The Truth: Gun Ownership IS Allowed in Engand & UK.

British Government Consular Web Site ^

[Cpt Sir Richard Burton]

If an individual imports a firearm and/or ammunition after becoming a resident of the UK, he will need to apply for a firearms or shotgun certificate. Application must be made to the Chief Officer of the Police for the area in which he is resident. The Metropolitan Police Service Firearms Enquiry Team provides specific information on firearms certificates and shotgun certificates.

[Cpt Sir Richard Burton]

"Why can't you use it for self defense?"

I'm not here to defend British gun laws... but it is probably to prevent people commiting murder and then claim it was in self defence.

I think it's a stupid law... some states have the same stupid law here in the US.

[Cpt Sir Richard Burton]

" know two British citizens who legally own guns in the U.S.."

I also have a British friend who also owns and shoots guns in NC... so I know it's not all states... I made the mistake of moving to MA.

[rockfish59]

The other night on Art Bell, he said some guy in England shot some 'pumpkin poachers' with a shotgun!!

I've got a 10 guage muzzleloading Greener made around 1880.
Great for trimming the trees when loaded with #7 split shot! =0)

[Cpt Sir Richard Burton]

"Do not assume that the rest of the Union is like Mass"

Agreed, I shouldn't paint the whole country with the same brush.

But, TV/radio hosts, shouldn't give the impression that the UK is a gun hating dictatorship - it isn't. Now Massachusetts on the other hand...

[dinodino]

I'm a little curious how you owned a 9mm, as my friend told me that pistol ownership is next to impossible in the U.K. How exactly did you manage this?

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

You don't seem to understand that you are comparing Massachusetts, one of the most restrictive places in the United States, with the UK. Try comparing many of the gun friendly states to the UK.

[Sorcha]

"But if it turns out to be a young, single, crazy eyed individual, that looks as if he has just come out of an Al-Qaeda training camp"

Oh, I see, so you discriminate against young and singles. Also, the official granting the permits could pick and choose who to give the permits to on his pleasure by deciding who, on his perspective have "crazy eyes". And finally, notice that it is not necessary that it be determined, or at least strong suspicion based on real evidence, that the single youth actually came out of an Al-Qaeda camp, but only that he looks like he did. Again, the permission is then totaly arbitrary to the official's whim, in which case it is a priviledge not a right.

Cpt. Sir, pardon me if I am wrong, but from the racist and discriminatory tones of your posts, I am on the impression that the only reason you have guns in England as you state is because that "Cpt Sir" in front of your name gives you sympathies among the permit-granting officials as you seem to belong to a different "cast" from the peasants around you, and that you are glad that the peasants around you aren't allowed to have the guns you do.

Aren't you just upset that, perhaps because Americans don't like cast systems, Taxachussetts doesn't recognize your distinction and denies you access to firearms just like they do with everybody else?

[Cpt Sir Richard Burton]

"...because that "Cpt Sir" in front of your name gives you sympathies among ..."

It's just a screen name - it in no way reflects my status... just somebody I admire from history.

It's true, some officials in the UK have more freedom to exercise their judgement.

My brother, for example, wasn't able to get a firearms certificate until he was 27 - he never broke the law; but he was a tearaway as a youth. The local copper knew he would probably end-up using a gun in a irresponsible dangerous manner.

Once he "grew-up" there was no problem.

Anyway one can always appeal his or her case.

[Cpt Sir Richard Burton]

"You don't seem to understand that you are comparing Massachusetts,..."

I do understand this.

My main point, once again, is that guns are not illegal in the UK - which is what most Aemricans seem to believe.

Nor are they illegal in MA.

[Prodigal Son]

There's another British Freeper- tony cavanagh - who has tried more than once to illuminate us on British gun laws. People don't want to hear it man. Not saying you're not correct but this is one of those things- people have their minds made up on this subject. You can own a gun in Australia as well but you wouldn't know it from reading the responses on this forum.

I think the meat of the issue is- some Americans (not all- LOL! the dems/greens certainly don't feel this way) feel that the gov't has absolutely no say whatsoever in regulating gun ownership. I am one of those. I don't even want the gov't to tell an ex-felon (who has completely served his sentence- this is important- parole or reduced sentence for good behaviour would be exceptions) he can't own a gun. I think people should be able to buy AKs and wear 'em on slings on city streets and in public buildings (privately owned buildings of course could make their own rules). I don't believe the gov't has the right to require a permit. I believe people have the right to own as many guns as they want. Personally, I'd like to see every swinging Richard (no pun intended) packing heat. It would virtually be the end of bank robberies and many other crimes. You'd have a lot more deaths through gun fights between friends I expect, but I can live with that as long as the gov't will stay out of my life.

Now, that's me personally. I'd reckon that most Americans want to see some form of restriction on gun ownership- whether it be gun permits (even "shall issue" CCW is a form of restriction), background checks, assault weapons bans or what have you. This includes many in the Republican party as well and note- many democrats are very much pro 2nd Ammendment without restriction. The official democrat party line is "sensible restrictions".

I live in the UK. I might have to look into buying a gun for my home and see how easy it is to do.

Right now I protect my home with focused, righteous anger, the calculated use and application of hard and/or sharp implements and my physical extremities- I'm at the caveman level you might say. But that's ok with me, I can do "cave man" very well and I get a certain amount of personal satisfaction when I can physically bash some object (inanimate or otherwise) that has made me angry into a shape that I find pleasing to look at or listen to...

But a gun might be handy for my wife, she's physically strong and has taken karate lessons for years, but she just doesn't do Neanderthal like I do. ;-)

BTW, if you're not a disruptor- welcome to FR.

[Cpt Sir Richard Burton]

"I'm a little curious how you owned a 9mm, as my friend told me that pistol ownership is next to impossible in the U.K. How exactly did you manage this?"

But it's not impossible, which is my point. The police may have had doubts about your friends reasons for owning one. There is a lot of hassle involved... mainly designed to weed out potential criminals.


1. I grew up in a farming area where gun ownership is common

2. The local cop knew me from childhood

3. I served in the armed forces

4. I use to shoot regularly at a club in my youth

5. I had good references and absolutely no criminal record.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

BTW, if you're not a disruptor- welcome to FR.

Ditto. Better move out of Massachusetts though, they forgot long time they're the home of the Boston Tea Party.

[Cpt Sir Richard Burton]

".. live in the UK. I might have to look into buying a gun for my home and see how easy it is to do..."

Try the place I frequented in London...:

http://www.raywardgunsmith.co.uk/contents

how would this suit you:

http://www.raywardgunsmith.co.uk/contents/gunspec.asp?ID=302

Yes, for you doubters, you can buy an HKMP5 9mm in the UK.

[Shooter 2.5]

We have a different set of definitions than you do. Our past experience with guns is from the days we could walk into any gunshop or hardware store and buy any style of firearm. Asking permission of anyone is a gun ban and we are actively trying to return to those days.

[LibKill]

maybe I'll move to Texas.

I don't know what Texas law is concering resident aliens, but for citizens this has to be one of the most firearms friendly states in the U.S.

[dinodino]

What restrictions are placed on your ownership of the pistol? Are you allowed to keep it in your home? Can you target shoot and reload on your property (I'm basing this question on your "farming area" comment)? What about travelling with the firearm on your person?

[Cpt Sir Richard Burton]

I'm a little curious how you owned a 9mm,...

I should have also added I got mine in 1989, post 1998 (or something like that) it is harder, he would need to apply under Section 5 of the Firearms Act (I think), but it is still legal to buy a 9mm if you have a Section 5 license.

[Prodigal Son]

You know, I'm ex military- Infantry for 8 yrs. I come from a rural, hunting background. But I'm not a gun nut, believe it or not. I have no special affection for them.

A gun is a tool, like a ball peen hammer or a lawn mower and I have no special affection for ball peen hammers or lawn mowers, they're designed to get the job done and I use them to do a chore, nothing else.

I enjoy shooting any kind of gun or bow and arrow for that matter. Being in the military was great sometimes for that--- nothing like an afternoon at the 50 CAL range. I also enjoy darts and billiards. I doubt I would spend a great deal of time shooting now if I had the opportunity- I've simply got too much other stuff to do. If I bought a gun (or two) now, it would be strictly for protection of my wife and home.

The two weapons I've always preferred for protecting my home were a 12 gauge pump shotgun (barrel sawn off) and a revolver- 38 or 357. I consider a well rounded complement of weapons to be a revovler, a pump shotgun, a 22 rifle and a 30 caliber rifle (for bigger game). These are personal preferences. I admit, it would be nice to own a huge arsenal of various weapons but it would be equally nice to own a garage full of various antique sports cars and I have the money for neither. It's not so much the tool- it's how skillfully you use it. I understand owning lots of guns makes some people happy and this makes me happy for them, but if I had a 1,000 extra quid laying about I'd probably spend it on SCUBA diving (even if I were in the States).

Even if gun restrictions were totally abolished here and I won the lottery, I would probably buy no more than the 4 weapons I have listed.

[Sorcha]

"1. I grew up in a farming area where gun ownership is common

2. The local cop knew me from childhood

3. I served in the armed forces

4. I use to shoot regularly at a club in my youth

5. I had good references and absolutely no criminal record."


OK, so it seems that I was wrong in my judgement of you as a "high caste" exception, in that case I apologize. (Although I still think your statements were discriminatory.)

However, the list of conditions which you satisfied in order to have access to firearms seems extremely restrictive. Here where I live (Colorado) we only have to fullfill condition 5, and that's only for obtaining carry permits, not for ownership. Fullfilling conditions 1 through 4 would greatly limit the number of people who would have legal access to firearms. (I understand perhaps not all have to necessarily be fullfilled, but you seem to imply that all had quite a weight in your obtaining the permission). Number 2 bothers me the most - so only the friends of cops get to have the guns? That's how it is in the country I come from - it is also not hard to get guns there, if, of course, you manage to befriend a cop (friendship can sometime also be bought). So in that case only a few can have guns: cops and their friends, so we're back onto the caste system scenario.

[AdamSelene235]

but the majority of us like it that way - it's called "democracy".

If you read through our Constitution you will not find the word Democracy anywhere. Majoritarianism is not compatible with a Free Republic.

Democracy is mob rule. Modern mobocrats believe they have the right to impose their every whim on their subjects. Cromwell,Hitler,Mussolini,Milosevic-all products of Democracy.

The majority is almost never right. If the majority of Britons decided certain opinions could not be voiced, would you respect their decision? Self defense, like free speech is a basic human right and should not be subject to the whims of the mob.

Our social contract says our right to bear arms "shall not be infringed". There is a protocol to alter our Constitution but this is not the path the enemies of Bill of Rights have chosen. Why? Because they know they will lose. Instead, democracy has been used to subvert our highest laws. If you disolve this contract, the people have no obligation to remain non-violent.

This is about more than firearms. Socialist democracy is nothing short of an attack on the ideas of the Enlightenment, the dignity and liberty of the individual, and civilization itself.

Socialist Democracy is so incapacitating, Britian, a nation that once ruled the seas is incapable of operating a simple railroad. Civilization is collapsing in Europe. And sadly, the United States has also started backsliding away from civilization. Do not expect us to whine about the tune our rulers fiddle as Rome burns.