Posted on 10/19/2002 3:41:11 AM PDT by shuckmaster
Edited on 05/07/2004 9:05:57 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
With a slow, deliberate gait, H.K. Edgerton walked along U.S. 25 toward Greenville on Wednesday wearing a Confederate soldier's uniform and resting a Confederate flag on his right shoulder.
Edgerton, who is black, is marching from Asheville, N.C., to Austin, Texas, to raise awareness and funds for Sons of the Confederate Veterans and the Southern Legal Resource Center, which advocates Southern heritage.
(Excerpt) Read more at greenvilleonline.com ...
there are in the US Archives the individual service records of MORE tha 1.2 million CSA servicemembers. those records are available for public inspection at most large public libraries.
go think up a BETTER damnyankee LIE!
free dixie,sw
-archy-/-
for dixie LIBERTY,sw
it took a nation at least twice as populous, with seemingly UNLIMITED $$$$$$$ & cannon fodder FOUR (4) YEARS to defeat the CSA!
in the bitter end, $$$$$$$$ & a high command willing to KILL an unlimited number of bluebellies FINALLY overcame ingenuity,guts & brains.
free dixie,sw
By most records, there were around 100 Me 262's shot down. One of your posts says that only 3 were shot down. If one goes through the testimony of the various fighter groups, there are probably more than 3000 shot down. Never mind that no more than 300 ever flew.
In the meantime, when I say milk runs, take a peek at the 354th fighter squadron on down. I mean no disrepsect to anyone. If one inverted the 354th to Tuskegee war duties, the results would be similar I'm sure.
Okay, I know you'd hang me on that, I should of said 8. I know that would be enough for Linclon to start a war.
That source that said only 8 were shot down was clearly wrong. Perhaps 8 were shot down that day.
I'm still waiting for you to document your suggestion that the black pilots were put strictly on to milk runs.
I'd also be glad to see you explain whether this preferential treatment was done in order to help them succeed or fail.
Walt
I don't need to go to the national archives to know that only a tiny fraction were black.
There is no credible proof that more than a handful of blacks fought for the CSA.
Consider:
FRIDAY, February 10, 1865.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
SECOND CONGRESS-SECOND SESSION
EMPLOYMENT OF NEGROES AS SOLDIERS
Mr. Wickham, of Virginia, moved the indefinite postponement of the bill. He was opposed to its going to a select committee. If it went to any committee it should go, in the regular channel, to the Committee on Military Affairs. He wished, however, this question of arming and making soldiers of negroes to be now disposed of, finally and forever. He wished it to be decided whether negroes are to be placed upon an equality by the side of our brave soldiers. They would be compelled to. They would have to camp and bivouac together.
Mr. Wickham said that our brave soldiers, who have fought so long and nobly, would not stand to be thus placed side by side with negro soldiers. He was opposed to such a measure. The day that such a bill passed Congress sounds the death knell of this Confederacy. The very moment an order goes forth from the War Department authorizing the arming and organizing of negro soldiers there was an eternal end to this struggle.-(Voice-That's so.)
The question being ordered upon the rejection of the bill, it was lost-ayes 21, noes 53. As this vote was regarded as a kind of test of the sense of the House upon the policy of putting negroes into the army, we append the ayes and noes-the question being the rejection of this bill authorizing the employment of negroes as soldiers:
Ayes-Messrs. Baldwin, Branch, Cruikshank, De Jarnette, Fuller, Garland, Gholson, Gilmer, Lamkin, J. M. Leach, J. T. Leach, McMullin, Miles, Miller, Ramsey, Sexton, Smith, of Alabama, Smith, of North Carolina, Wickham, Witherspoon, Mr. Speaker.
Noes-Messrs. Akin, Anderson, Barksdale, Batson, Bell, Blandford, Boyce, Bradley, H. W. Bruce, Carroll, Chambers, Chilton, Clark, Clopton, Cluskey, Conrad, Conrow, Darden, Dickinson, Dupre, Ewing, Farrow, Foster, Funsten, Gaither, Goode, Gray, Hartridge, Hatcher, Hilton, Holder, Holliday, Johnston, Keeble, Lyon, Pugh, Read, Rogers, Russell, Simpson, J. M. Smith, W. E. Smith, Snead, Swan, Triplett, Villere, Welsh.
If any number of black soldiers had been serving in the ranks of the CSA armies, how did it escape the notice of Congress?
It also escaped the notice of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and others:
Page 246, Confederate Veteran, June 1915. Official publication of the United Confederate Veteran, United Daughters of the Confederacy, Sons of Confederate Veterans, and the Confederated Southern Memorial Association.
Gen. Howell Cobb, an unbeliever in this expedient, wrote from Macon, Ga., January 8, 1865: "I think that the proposition is the most pernicious idea that has been suggested since the war began. You cannot make soldiers of slaves or slaves of soldiers. The moment you resort to this your white soldiers are lost to you, and one reason why this proposition is received with favor by some portions of the army is because they hope that when the negro comes in they can retire. You cannot keep white and black troops together, and you cannot trust negroes alone. They won't make soldiers, as they are wanting in every qualification necessary to make one.
Samuel Clayton, Esq., of Cuthbert, Ga., wrote on January 10, 1865: "All of our male population between sixteen and sixty is in the army. We cannot get men from any other source; they must come from our slaves. Some say that negroes will not fight, but they fought us at Ocean Pond. Honey Hill, and other places. The government takes all of our men and exposes them to death. Why can't they take our property? He who values his property more than independence is a poor, sordid wretch."
General Lee, who clearly saw the inevitable unless his forces were strengthened, wrote on January 11: "I should prefer to rely on our white population; but in view of the preparation of our enemy it is our duty to provide for a continuous war, which, I fear, we cannot accomplish with our present resources. It is the avowed intention of the enemy to convert the ablebodied negro into soldiers and emancipate all. His progress will thus add to his numbers and at the same time destroy slavery in a most pernicious manner to the welfare of our people. Whatever may be the effect of our employing negro troops, it cannot be as mischievous as this. If it ends in subverting slavery, it will be accomplished by ourselves, and we can devise the means of alleviating the evil consequences to both races. I think, therefore, that we must decide whether slavery shall be extinguished by our enemies and the slaves used against us or use them ourselves at the risk of the effects which may be produced upon our soldiers' social institutions. My own opinion is that we should employ tl1em without delay. I believe that with proper regulations they can be made efficient soldiers. They possess the physical qualifications in an eminent degree. Long habits of obedience and subordination, coupled with the moral influence which in our country the white man possesses over the black, furnish an excellent foundation for that discipline which is the best guarantee of military efficiency. We can give them an interest by allowing immediate freedom to all who enlist and freedom at the end of the war to their families. We should not expect slaves to fight for prospective freedom when they can secure it at once by going to the enemy, in whose service they will incur no greater risk than in ours. In conclusion, I can only say that whatever is to be done must be attended to at once."
President Davis on February 21, 1865 expressed himself as follows:
"It is now becoming daily more evident to all reflecting persons that we are reduced to choosing whether the negroes shall fight for or against us and that all the arguments as to the positive advantage or disadvantage of employing them are beside the question, which is simply one of relative advantage between having their fighting element in our ranks or those of the enemy.":
Would Lee and Davis have had those points of view had there been any number of blacks in ranks?
Walt
I don't know what this means. The 354th GROUP was the pioneer Mustang group -- the first in Europe to convert to the P-51. They had a distinguised record. Major James Howard, the only Mustang pilot in Europe to win the Medal of Honor flew with the 354th.
Howard was an interesting guy. He was a Navy pilot pre-war, flying the SBD Dauntless dive bomber off the Yorktown. He was tabbed for the Flying Tigers, where he was credited with 6 kills. Gregory Boyington relates in his "Baa Baa Black Sheep", an incident where he saw a single P-40 dive through a formation of Jap fighters, downing two. It was Howard. In his MoH mission he attacked 30 Germans single-handed, shooting down three. If you watch the Discovery Channel WINGS episode on the P-51, they have some footage from Howard's gun cameras from this mission. That is too cool. Howard was the first American to get five kills against both Japs and Germans. His Mustang was named "Ding Hoa!" Which means "GO VOLS!" in Chinese. Okay, it means, "okay" or "thumbs up" or something like that.
Walt
if what you said was true, there wouldn't have been MANY blacks in the UCV camps & at EVERY UCV encampment.
PLEASE keep posting your scalawag lies;every one serves the TRUE CAUSE!
free dixie,sw
I quote the historical record.
You don't, nor can you -- not and support the fantasy you put forward.
Walt
the TRUTH is the WBTS was just about ONE MAIN ISSUE: freedom & liberty from the damnyankees. the blacks,reds,whites,browns & asians of the southland were UNITED in THAT CAUSE, despite their other disimilar interests.
what makes me sick is having a turncoat/traitor like you both on FR & in the southland. why not go north & wallow around in your hatefulness THERE?
scalawags/liberals/halfbacks have NO FUTURE in the southland! leave now and avoid the rush NORTH!
free dixie,sw
To succeed of course. My original point was valid, which you ridiculed.
You don't know what that means? I can only surmise that you think the blacks were treated to equal footing with everybody else as far as operational duties. You seem to ignore the realities of the time and chastise me for suggesting otherwise.
I know Howard pretty well, my dad was in the 354th.
Howard has been dead several years.
Walt
You've yet to show that they -were- treated any differently as regards operations. The excerpt I found in "Winged Victory" suggests there was no difference in the way they were treated.
Walt
You don't know what that means?
I think it means you don't know the difference between a group and a squadron. The 354th GROUP and the 332ND GROUP were made up of four SQUARDONS. Typical table of organization for a USAAF SQUADRON was 12 aircraft. A GROUP would therefore have 48 aircraft.
You said "354th fighter squadron", which is not the same thing as the 354th fighter GROUP.
Walt
Walt, what I meant was that my father told me all about him. My father is also now dead. Awaiting your smart ass reply.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.