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FLAME WARS, BANISHMENTS, ANTI-FREEPERS. YOUR CALLS, YOUR OPINIONS THIS WEEK ON RADIO FREE REPUBLIC
Radio FreeRepublic and the Free Republic Network ^ | August 13, 2002 | Luis Gonzalez

Posted on 08/13/2002 9:40:24 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez

Radio Free Republic Presents

Click on the radio to listen live!

The Banana Republican Radio Hour

With your host Luis Gonzalez

This week's topic:

WHY DO CONSERVATIVES EAT THEIR OWN?

Thursday, August 15th., 9 PM, EST.

Are we our own worst enemies?

Are the divisions so evident in FreeRepublic indicative of the future of the conservative movement?

Can we stand united, or will be fall divided?

Call in and tell us what's on your mind!!!

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TOPICS: Announcements; Breaking News; Free Republic; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: catholicbashers; cheese; flaming; mormonhaters; radiofr
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To: Luis Gonzalez
After perusing this thread, you've either got some cajones or are just plain loco! Good luck in any event --
company's in town tomorrow nite, so I look forward to catching the archive feed off TORN afterwards.

(Say, maybe Elvis WILL make an anniversary appearance ... ;^)
441 posted on 08/14/2002 8:42:49 PM PDT by mikrofon
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To: H.Akston
Your argument was (still is actually) that the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights apply only to Americxan citizens.

You're wrong.

I'll prove it to you.

If a French tourist is arrested for murdering someone while visiting the US, caught red-handed at it, can we just summarily execute him and forego the trial?
442 posted on 08/14/2002 8:43:58 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
You have mail. :-)
443 posted on 08/14/2002 8:51:21 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons
You have quite a fan club here nopardons. Are you going to call in tomorrow night on Luis' show? I'll be listening.
444 posted on 08/14/2002 8:56:09 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: Luis Gonzalez
can we just summarily execute him and forego the trial?

Are you asking "is that the law" or "is that what the law should be?"

445 posted on 08/14/2002 8:58:03 PM PDT by Pistias
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To: Luis Gonzalez
If a French tourist is arrested for murdering someone while visiting the US, caught red-handed at it, can we just summarily execute him and forego the trial?

No, he has some rights. We can't just kill him.

That protection may not come from a 5th Amendment right to life though. It might come from the Geneva Convention.

However, I do know, that if a French terrorist 'of Moroccan descent", like Zacharias Moussoui living in Minnesota has a computer, that the FBI considers worthy of searching, they can search it without a warrant. He therefore has no 4th Amendment rights. Therefore, BARR IS WRONG.

The delay caused by that judge who did not grant permission to search ZM's computer could have caused many Americans to lose their right to life and property in New York city. The FBI should have just gone ahead and searched it, instead of being so afraid of the ACLU that they asked a judge - a liberal judge - even though they didn't have to.

And why you're so hung up on granting foreigners 4th Amendment rights, I will never understand.

446 posted on 08/14/2002 9:02:45 PM PDT by H.Akston
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To: Pistias
"What the law should be" is basically your opinion, I am not interested in your opinion, I am interested in whether this man gets a trial by a jury, like any American citizen, or does he get lynched.
447 posted on 08/14/2002 9:03:20 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
No thank you, you're far more dangerous than Hillary.

Go get 'em, Luis!

448 posted on 08/14/2002 9:05:41 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
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To: Bill D. Berger; Texasforever

You are not being ruled a foreign occupation army, and Henry David Thoreau did not write a pamplet entitled "Civil Insurrection." If you ascribe to the Claire Wolfe's neo-Leninist dictum then you have no good business here on FR.

449 posted on 08/14/2002 9:07:24 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: H.Akston
"No, he has some rights."

Our founding fathers drafted our Constitution just before the state triumphed. Its language and the wording of the Bill of Rights belong to an earlier era. If Thomas Jefferson and his committee were writing the Declaration of Independence during these gender-neutral times they would have undoubtedly substituted "persons" for "Men" in their most memorable sentence, "all Men were created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights." However, Jefferson was not equating "men" with "citizens." The founding fathers did not conceive of rights only in territorial terms as we do today. Jefferson would be shocked if he were told that we now consider his "Men" as being only citizens or legal residents of the United States. There were no citizens of the United States of America on July 4, 1776, only persons residing in a new land. When the United States was established, many persons had no wish to become its citizens. Loyalists, Indians, French, Spaniards, African Americans, and women were included in a territorial state that took two centuries to grant all of them their full legal rights as "persons."

The word "citizen" is not even used in the "Bill of Rights." "Persons" have these rights. The matter is not simply semantic. In law words are important; in human rights they are crucial. The fifth amendment decrees that no "person" shall be convicted without presentment or indictment in times of peace and that no "person" shall be subject to double jeopardy. This language reflects earlier jurisprudence when the right of due process was not restricted to citizens. The French jurist who coined the maxim, "Innocent until proven guilty," would be puzzled that today we embrace the maxim but find reasons to violate it. For him, it meant "no one, absolutely no one can be denied a trial under any circumstances. And that everyone, absolutely everyone, had the right to conduct a vigorous, thorough defense." Following this logic to its inexorable conclusion, these jurists even argued that if the devil himself were to be judged, he must be granted all the rights of due process.

If we take rights seriously, we may see that the equivocal language of our Constitution furnishes a vehicle and a formidable legal argument for recognizing the rights of all persons, even illegal immigrants, terrorists, and other enemies of the state. In our most recent confrontation with the issue, politicians who had turned their backs on Haitians, Cubans, Mexicans and others whom the INS had routinely deprived of their rights of due process have suddenly discovered religion in the person of a six year old boy. I hope these politicians continue to embrace due process for all persons in the future. After all, when we take the rights of any human beings away, we undermine the absolute guarantee of all of our rights for each of us.

http://www.spinninglobe.net/dueprocess.html


450 posted on 08/14/2002 9:17:58 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Fred Mertz; nopardons
"You have quite a fan club here nopardons."

Yes she does Fred, and I'm the head of it.

451 posted on 08/14/2002 9:20:06 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: H.Akston

"The founding fathers did not conceive of rights only in territorial terms as we do today. Jefferson would be shocked if he were told that we now consider his "Men" as being only citizens or legal residents of the United States. There were no citizens of the United States of America on July 4, 1776, only persons residing in a new land."

Bears repeating.

452 posted on 08/14/2002 9:23:00 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Thank you Luis !

BLUSH .........

453 posted on 08/14/2002 9:23:46 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Luis Gonzalez
WHY DO CONSERVATIVES EAT THEIR OWN?

For they are crunchy and good with ketchup.

454 posted on 08/14/2002 9:24:03 PM PDT by Dakotabound
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To: Luis Gonzalez
basically your opinion

Unless my opinion happens to be true, in which case it's a fact.

Are governments instituted among men to protect their rights, or everyone's rights?

455 posted on 08/14/2002 9:29:43 PM PDT by Pistias
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To: Pistias
They are instituted to protect the rights of those people within their boundaries.

The question you're raising is whether non-citizens are protected under our constitution, and our Bill of Rights WHILE THEY ARE HERE.

Yes they are.

Don't change the issue being discussed.
456 posted on 08/14/2002 9:35:57 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Pistias
HEY! You're not Hugh!
457 posted on 08/14/2002 9:37:35 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: DrLiberty
You are so wrong about nopardons. She cares very much for this nation, this forum, and I guess you could say she does not suffer fools gladly.
Maybe you should get to know her before you judge her?
458 posted on 08/14/2002 9:46:41 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: ladyinred
Thank you, so much, for standing by me and speaking the truth. :-)
459 posted on 08/14/2002 9:52:10 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: ladyinred
nopardons can dish it out, but she can't take it. She's a bore.
460 posted on 08/14/2002 9:52:14 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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