Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Have Anti-Father Family Court Policies Led to a Men's Marriage Strike?
GlennSacks.com ^ | 07/05/02 | Glenn Sacks and Dianna Thompson

Posted on 07/07/2002 10:55:29 PM PDT by FreedomFriend

Kathleen is attractive, successful, witty, and educated. She also can't find a husband. Why? Because most of the men this thirty-something software analyst dates do not want to get married. These men have Peter Pan Syndrome--they refuse to commit, refuse to settle down, and refuse to "grow up."

However, given the family court policies and divorce trends of today, Peter Pan is no naive boy, but instead a wise man.

"Why should I get married and have kids when I could lose those kids and most of what I've worked for at a moment's notice?" asks Dan, a 31 year-old power plant technician who says he will never marry. "I've seen it happen to many of my friends. I know guys who came home one day to an empty house or apartment--wife gone, kids gone. They never saw it coming. Some of them were never able to see their kids regularly again."

The US marriage rate has dipped 40% over the past four decades, to its lowest point ever. There are many plausible explanations for this trend, but one of the least mentioned is that American men, in the face of a family court system which is hopelessly stacked against them, have subconsciously launched a "marriage strike."

It is not difficult to see why. Let's say that Dan defies Peter Pan, marries Kathleen, and has two children. There is a 50% likelihood that this marriage will end in divorce within eight years, and if it does the odds are two to one that it will be Kathleen, not Dan, who initiates the divorce. It may not matter that Dan was a decent husband--studies show that few divorces are initiated over abuse or because the man has already abandoned the family. Nor is adultery cited as a factor by divorcing women appreciably more than by divorcing men.

While the courts may grant Dan and Kathleen joint legal custody, the odds are overwhelming that it is Kathleen, not Dan, who will win physical custody. Over night Dan, accustomed to seeing his kids every day and being an integral part of their lives, will become a "14 percent dad"--a father who is allowed to spend only one out of every 7 days with his own children.

Once divorced, odds are at least even that Dan's ex-wife will interfere with his visitation rights. Three-quarters of divorced men surveyed say their ex-wives have interfered with their visitation, and 40% of mothers studied admitted that they had done so, and that they had generally acted out of spite or in order to punish their exes.

Kathleen will keep the house and most of the couple's assets. Dan will need to set up a new residence and pay at least a third of his take home pay to Kathleen in child support.

As bad as all of this is, it would still make Dan one of the lucky ones. After all, he could be one of those fathers who cannot see his children at all because his ex has made a false accusation of domestic violence, child abuse, or child molestation. Or a father who can only see his own children under supervised visitation or in nightmarish visitation centers where dads are treated like criminals.

He could be one of those fathers whose ex has moved their children hundreds or thousands of miles away, in violation of court orders which courts often do not enforce. He could be one of those fathers who tears up his life and career again and again in order to follow his children, only to have his ex-wife continually move them.

He could be one of the fathers who has lost his job, seen his income drop, or suffered a disabling injury, only to have child support arrearages and interest pile up to create a mountain of debt which he could never hope to pay off. Or a father who is forced to pay 70% or 80% of his income in child support because the court has imputed an unrealistic income to him. Or a dad who suffers from one of the child support enforcement system's endless and difficult to correct errors, or who is jailed because he cannot keep up with his payments. Or a dad who reaches old age impoverished because he lost everything he had in a divorce when he was middle-aged and did not have the time and the opportunity to earn it back.

"It's a shame," Dan says. "I always wanted to be a father and have a family. But unless the laws change and give fathers the same right to be a part of their children's lives as mothers have, it just isn't worth the risk."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: clintonlegacy; divorce; divorcecourt; divorcelawyer; donutwatch; familycourt; fathersrights; golddiggers; lawyer; marriagestrike; moneywhores; visitation
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 201-211 next last
Comment #61 Removed by Moderator

To: Motherbear
I think he neglected to mention the 50+% (and I do mean + includes child support.

EBUCK

62 posted on 07/08/2002 12:23:51 PM PDT by EBUCK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: goldenstategirl
but I am not going to set myself up as a de facto prostitute for some of those guys out there, because that is exactly what they want.

That is a lot of what they want. Of course, if there wasn't the almost certain eventuality of being bent over by the courts, that may just turn itself around. Most of the guys I know have been divorced more than once. Some of them are paying child support to more than one woman (I'm not supporting their failure, I'm just relaying to you an observation) and their stories are just about enough to scare any 20 something right into the prostitute frame of mind.

I took the position when I got married the first time that my child would be mine forever and I was ready to accept that responsibility. It wasn't until I had full costody of my son that my (2nd) wife and I decided to start in on another kid making project. Most younger folks have no concept of a "lifetime commitment" nor responsibility. So when they hear these stories, every time in a bar talking to someone my age, they imediately assume (90% rightly so) that they will be shafted my whomever they marry so why even get started?

EBUCK

63 posted on 07/08/2002 12:33:53 PM PDT by EBUCK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: EBUCK
(and I do mean + includes child support.

should read.....(and I do mean "+") includes child support.

Haste...

EBUCK

64 posted on 07/08/2002 12:35:01 PM PDT by EBUCK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: FreedomFriend
attend a Christian Singles Praise & Worship within your respective city. At some of these gatherings, there are upwards of 1,500 single Christian women, so you have a good chance of meeting a good woman.

Nice try. However --

(1) the "righteous" among them have mostly been brainwashed into "kissing dating goodbye" and are therefore unapproachable unless you're already an intimate part of their social circle (in which case, of course, you'd be 'just friends' -- a catch 22 that keeps many women single permanently) -- and

(2) the hypocrites among them, who are legion, are worse than the unbelievers. Tragically, I found that "a large percentage, perhaps a majority, of them have very little sense of morals and values", even WITHIN the supposedly Bible-believing church world.

65 posted on 07/08/2002 12:52:16 PM PDT by Rytwyng
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

Comment #66 Removed by Moderator

To: John O
Don't try to get away with it. Confess. Confess and plea bargain down to manslaughter, you'll be back out on the street in 5 to 10. Less if you're a good prisoner and spend a lot of time in the prison chapel.
67 posted on 07/08/2002 1:21:59 PM PDT by discostu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: John O
RE 45: Hurting the woman is really not an option. The divorce happened to me like the heading of this subject and I lost both my daughters due to her attitude, her parents attitude, her CHURCH which I promptly left.
I did remarry after 17 years and my new wife understands the situation and agrees with me. I was tired of being alone and this relationship is working after 8+ years.
68 posted on 07/08/2002 2:20:56 PM PDT by southland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Rytwyng
I didn't say that they were perfect, but rather you'd have a better chance of finding a good woman. I believe that.

Furthermore, yes, you're right, many Christian women have "kissed dating goodbye". Much of that has come about through a pretty known author's best-seller. It's the "Courtship idea".

I can see both sides, for dating someone before you've known them at least a little while creates a false impression of the person of whom you are dating. You may get wrapped up in infatuation long before you've gotten to know the individual's character, actions, life, etc. This can lead many people to fall in love with people of whom they have nothing in common.

On the other hand, I can see the benefit of dating, for not everyone is able to have the time, given their schedule, to be with the realm of their date's social circle. Furthermore, social circles, though they can protect an individual from being taken of by a person of whom is not their match, it does force a disciminatory factor onto the person of whom the social person is dating.

Furthermore, given the times, men and women of the same age do not often easily come into contact with one another, hence they're unlikely to develop friendships with members of the opposite sex of which they can interact within a social circle setting. Therefore, dating is the only option for guys and girls left out of the "social pipeline", unless they just happen to meet someone and all of a sudden say that they're just going to be friends. However, that situation is often awkward for both persons, though not a working improbability.

69 posted on 07/08/2002 2:55:01 PM PDT by FreedomFriend
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: goldenstategirl
Goldenstate Girl, you're either looking in the wrong places, or what you're attracted to is the "bad boy".

Trust me, "Bad Boys" are just that. They're usually shallow, conceited, arrogant, immoral, and are not the type of guy for any woman to be dealing with if she is looking for a marriage partner.

The goal is to find someone with whom you will be compatible. That is, a mate who has the same faith, interests, beliefs, values, etc. If you haven't been searching for that, then that is where you go wrong. However, I say this because I assume that you're a Conservative.

Some of the greatest guys are the ones that many women pass up. The nice guy type. The nice guy is generally a good man who will respect you, provide for you, and wants to be respected in return. He is also generally a man who has values, morals, and is looking for a woman with the same. I often wonder if it is women who do not want to marry, for I get the impression that they go for the "bad boy" simply to put off marriage, knowing that dating a nice guy will get them into the situation of which they can't say no to a proposal. I've thought that this case may apply every now and then.

However, you do live in California, a very liberal state. I imagine it may be harder to meet quality people because of the liberalness of the place.

70 posted on 07/08/2002 3:15:08 PM PDT by FreedomFriend
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: skemper
the righteous (sic) are right. Courtship is better than dating.

Not if "courtship", so-called, has the real world effect (regardless of the theory) of keeping people single. "Forbidding to marry" is not a Christian doctrine, quite the reverse, and anti-dating attitudes and teachings often result in a de-facto prohibition of marriage. Don't tell me it ain't so, I've seen it with my own eyes, many times.

If you do not put Christ first, then you should not be seeking Christian girls to marry.

I am a Christian, and I do put Christ first (otherwise I'd have been unequally yoked long ago). And, I finally DID marry a Christian girl.

Many non-Christian people come to Christian singles groups looking for a nice person to marry without knowing the Christian principles of marriage....

True, but that's not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about long-time, baptized, involved church members who live like the devil in private.

True Christian women have radar for non-Christian men and stay away.

They must be reading their radar screens backwards. They systematically reject good men and pick bad ones almost as consistently as worldly women do. Only after they have been very badly burned by the bad boys, do they FINALLY wake up. The problem appears to be, that the emotional structure of women craves a bad boy, whereas their morals tell them to find a good man -- and the modern church, nobody ever gets around to teaching women NOT to live by their emotions. So they have to learn the hard way.

these non-Christians are the ones who make up the hypocrites.

Er, no. Like I said, the seemingly serious, committed Christians can be the worst.

71 posted on 07/08/2002 3:47:12 PM PDT by Rytwyng
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: goldenstategirl
It's hard to believe anything anyone says anymore and it's simply a game of defense now.

You really summed it up here, and man is that sad! I want to be at least open to the possibility of marriage, to the idea that I could find a woman who really loves and is true and is not the ball-bustin' she-devil so feared by today's Peter Pans.

I have to admit, though, that after reading articles like this it's akin to waking up from a nightmare for me. I wake up and then comes a huge, relieved smile: Praise God I'm single!!!

72 posted on 07/08/2002 3:47:57 PM PDT by avenir
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: FreedomFriend
given the times, men and women of the same age do not often easily come into contact with one another...

Especially after they are out of school (where it's easy to meet vast numbers of singles.) Once you have a real world job, it's almost impossible to find people. You won't meet anyone through work, most likely, and if there were anyone suitable in your church/bible-study/social circle, you'd have paired off with them long ago and the issue would be moot... If that doesn't happen, then...

dating is the only option for guys and girls left out of the "social pipeline", unless they just happen to meet someone

I can't convince courtship advocates of this. Heaven knows I've tried.

73 posted on 07/08/2002 3:53:47 PM PDT by Rytwyng
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: goldenstategirl
exactly! and of course:

"They never saw it coming"

doubtful! i would say that 99.5% of men and/or women saw it coming.

74 posted on 07/08/2002 4:01:42 PM PDT by bandlength
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: FreedomFriend
and, on the other hand, i advise those women who are pretty much life-long members at said bible meetings to be very wary and skeptical of men who suddenly join; supposedly with new found interest in worship and god.

i naively married two such men and they turned out to be deadbeats, drunkards and wife beaters.

75 posted on 07/08/2002 4:06:02 PM PDT by bandlength
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: goldenstategirl
yeah. witness "bachelorettes in alaska" can you believe that dude named christian?
76 posted on 07/08/2002 4:13:58 PM PDT by bandlength
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: bandlength
bandlength, that is the exception and not the rule. I believe that most guys at these praise and worship meetings are genuine, good guys. I really do. The singles gathering that I am referring to is catered more to the worship side than the dating/courtship/meeting side. That's a big part of the reason they attend.
77 posted on 07/08/2002 5:13:16 PM PDT by FreedomFriend
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

Comment #78 Removed by Moderator

To: Rytwyng
As a single 25 year old male, I agree with you on the point that it's much harder to meet women after you finish college.

I rarely see any women within the age range of 21-30, of whom is single and or willing to date. The only time that this occurs is when I'm jogging on a nearby trail, or when I attend the Christian Singles Praise & Worship, of which I have spoken.

There are a few single women at my church, but they rarely seem interested. I had one girl at my church, of whom I really liked (for years), and she would play games with my head and tease me (get me to think that she liked me in a dating sense) so that I would later ask her out. Upon doing that, she'd say something to the effect of, "As friends, or...", or she'd make up an excuse of always being busy.

79 posted on 07/08/2002 5:31:18 PM PDT by FreedomFriend
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: FreedomFriend
bump
80 posted on 07/08/2002 6:43:19 PM PDT by FreedomFriend
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 201-211 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson