Weaning Them Off Soda/Maine

The Bangor Daily News ^ | 5 July 2002 | who knows!

[SheLion]

A group of dedicated health specialists met again this week to fine-tune its plan to encourage every school in Maine to get rid of sodas, chips and other non-nutritional items.

They have put together an information packet warning against soda and chips as major causes of a current epidemic of obesity and tooth decay throughout the country but especially in Maine. The packet includes research articles and fact sheets designed to persuade students, parents, teachers and school administrators that the campaign is one tangible, practical means of improving health and heading off future disease. The committee has met with vending machine companies and obtained assurances of cooperation.

The next step will be to develop a strategy presentation for individual school districts. Pilot projects in several Maine communities are scheduled to start March 1, 2003, After evaluation of the results, the statewide campaign is slated for the school year starting in September 2004.

One question that arose in this week’s meeting was how best to get the students to realize that it is up to them to control their own diet and escape from the vending-machine monopolies in many schools that promote consumption of the big-name drinks that are heavy on sugar and caffeine.

A nutritionist suggested permitting a choice between healthful and unhealthful items. Others believe that, if given a choice, many students will take the junk.

Another question is how the vending companies may respond to the campaign. Milk and plain water must be carefully defined or some vendor may come up with a pricey new variation. How about Coke-flavored milk?

The committee is preparing for the day when it will seek wider publicity. It is drafting model news stories and news releases. One suggestion, unanimously approved, was that they drop the technical term “dental caries” in their fact sheets and refer simply to plain old “tooth decay.” That was a step in the right direction.

[luckystarmom]

I don't think that is going to happen. Just look what happened at prohibition. It would be worse if they ever tried to get rid of soda. I'd be up in arms over that one!!!!!

As far as people saying it's unhealthy. Well, we all know it is. It's kind of like ice cream. We all know it's unhealthy also, but we sure love a few of those unhealthy things.

I actually also don't care if a private school has soda machines. I figure it's the right of a private school to do what they wish.

[Arioch7]

"It's like the whole thing about everyone in Cuba being able to read...they're just not allowed to read what they want to read."

Oh MAN!!! If I hear this line of adoration from the folks up here in Masachusetts, I AM GOING TO GO FREAKING BERSERK!!!!!

I had some lady squawking at me that its shameful that every child is literate in Cuba while here they are not.

Yeah, they can only read government sanctioned books and they are FORCED to learn through violence. If you let me run the school systems up here like a prison I would get results too.

I have read of thier school sytem and it is HORRIBLE! I cant believe these libs HATED Apartheid but love Castro's(Not you Larry, I am speaking of my Mass bretheren.) policies, what does that tell you?

I was against Apartheid and I am against Castro. At least I stand against monsters no matter what political stripe they are. I must say that Apartheid was NOWHERE NEAR as bad as Castro's tinpot regime.

Glad I got that off my chest. :D

[SheLion]

They settled on a Republic because they thought that form would avoid mob rule

Correct, Larry! I'm Greek, so you can take my word that democracy means mob rule. Demos = mob, crowd. 175 posted on 7/6/02 2:32 PM Eastern by metesky

liberallarry, get lost and leave me alone, ok? In fact , leave ALL of us alone!

Your getting tiring......

You keep this up and I will turn you in for abuse.

[Arioch7]

I think that it is great that LiberalLarry is on this forum.

It takes a brave man to post on a forum that is as Conservative as this one.

Since he is not a disruptor Shelion, I think that he has every right to be here and it might be useful to listen to input from the other side of the aisle.

[liberallarry]

I thank you for your defense. Curious is a better word than brave. I was disappointed in the Left - especially the PC Left. I wanted to see what the Right had to offer.

Back to medicine. You see my problem. Rural areas can't afford modern medicine - as presently practiced - and are looking for alternatives. In that way we have something in common with third-world countries - which is why I was interested in Cuba. If they have nothing to offer then I'm back to square one.

I have two directions which seem promising;

1)Increased emphasis on the preventative. It's a lot cheaper to stay healthy than to try to recover your health. I've already run into a problem on that one. The people most in need of health care are the very ones who are too lazy or stupid to pay attention to what they're doing. They think a pill and some tax-payer supported free medicine are all they need. None the less I want to keep going.

2) "para-doctors". To do this we need to change some laws - and will undoubtedly run into opposition from doctors. So we'd like to be prepared.

All hospitals have to comply with new seismic standards or shut down. We have some time. A group of 13 rural hospitals have combined to try to come up with a single design which will meet everyones' needs. Much cheaper that way. But to come up with a new design we have to figure out what sort of medicine we can reasonably be expected to deliver in the next 10 years or so. ????

Again, any help you can offer, any referrals you can make would be greatly appreciated.

[liberallarry]

We've realized the design should be modular - so that additions which will accomodate unforeseen or special needs can be easily made.

We also realize we have to build to minimum needs - to reduce cost and the chance of waste. No point in building a surgury if we'll never be able to afford surgeons.

[Arioch7]

Hmmm... I will have to get back to you on this one Larry.

I am obviousley not in a rural area but I do know a few medical people who might be able to give me some ideas to bounce off of you.

I myself am as perplexed by your situation as you are.

This topic is bookmarked and I will add further to it when I can give you a worthy contribution.

A very difficult problem you have there, dont let it get you down.

[liberallarry]

I thank you.

[ozone1]

Prevention has never been shown to be cost effective or really work in reducing overall costs, why do the libs constantly believe that it will have a beneficial effect. When it doesn't, they say we need to dump more money into it and it still doesn't work. Then there are too many people dependent on it for income to stop it and you get into the mess we have now in Maine, 3rd world quality treatment and high costs. This is why I go to Boston for care, both specialists and primary care.

[cgbg]

You gonna line everybody in the country up and dole out their tofu and string bean soup for the day?

Just think--if the liberals made every kid eat tofu and string bean soup every day many more parents would start home-schooling and the NEA would have fewer little ones to brainwash. Bring on the tofu! ;-)

[ozone1]

Phyto-estrogens (found in soy products)are the last thing I would want to put into a growing boy, the libs would probable love it to feminize all males.

[Paulus Invictus]

Do you mean I should sell my Pepsi stock? Will Maine doctors and dentists sue for lost business? (actually my dentist said that he loves the candy store next to the local school--keeps him filling teeth). My osteopathic, bone-setter specialist also said he truly loves roller blades, skateboards and dirt bikes. He claims that fully one half of his business comes from accidents involving people using this "fun" sports equipment.

[liberallarry]

I have exercised and paid attention to my diet and stress level all my life. I've hardly ever been sick. Many others have not been quite so lucky but my assessment is that it works. That's why I'm pushing it.

If you have something to offer - other than mindless criticism - feel free. I'm open to it.

[blackbart.223]

"In case you hadn't noticed we have a terrible problem with obesity and a health care system that's failing. What do you propose to do about that? Nothing?"

What do you propose to do about it? Ram you're beliefs down everyone else's throat by force of law?

[Paulus Invictus]

Do kids normally practice self-control? Gosh, that would be news to me. My four kids are grown up but now and then they demonstrate they lack self-control and responsibility for their actions. My youngest @ 39 decided he preferred to buy rare coins rather than make sure his car was serviced. Result: one ruined engine . Cost for new engine $4K. Call him irresponsible (set to music).

[ozone1]

How about development of regional care.
Local centers with Nurse Practioners/PA that take care of basics: physicals, blood draws/ sore throats/ stitches,(get a waver from the state for MD oversight)(could be any house, old church in area, even a stripped mobile home, requires no expensive equipment (there are auction sites for used hospital equipment) referal to local hospital for XRAYs, more complicated cases requiring MD input. Mobile CAT, MRI, PET scans are available (once a week, month they drive up to the hospital and plug in). Hospital only cares for less sick patients, obstetrics, anything requiring specialist gets referred/transferred to regional hospital (some people call this dumping, but if you don't have the quality care, don't offer it). Sign up with Tertiary care center for referrals and you can usually get specialists to see outpatients a day or 2 a month. Recognize you can't do everything and only offer basic quality services. Emphasis on ER/elderly care.

[liberallarry]

You're only on #5 - out of almost 200 posts. Keep going. If you still feel that way at the end, get back to me.

[ozone1]

You can also probably do an infusion clinic, Chemo, antibiotics. This way you don't need an oncologist and patients can still receive some treatment locally. All this can be based on prescriptions from specialists at regional/tertiary center, Oversight is through ER physicians, Faxes/phone calls to specialists. Reimbursement is still profitable.

[ozone1]

While your at it you can contract out pharmacy services to another hospital and they can use pyxis machines and a decent hospital computer system. You can also contract out physical therapy, speech therapy services. Or you can integrate these services with your home health care subsidiary (usually not profitable). PA's and Nurse Practitioners can also usually do most of the inpatient care. But the M.D.s usually want the money for services so your going to have to fight them. Other things you can do is convert some of your inpatient beds to skilled nursing beds/ long term care. Metal space buildings are fairly cheap and they do have standard designs available.

[liberallarry]

That's exactly where we're heading now - with one problem; the emergency room. We must have one to be called a hospital - and one is needed. Without ours a 200 mile stretch of an important highway would be uncovered. Also, we provide basic stabilization for locals and tourists (big recreation area). Because of this need we are labeled a critical access hospital and get some breaks from the federal government.

Our "hospital" has 37 beds. 33 are devoted to acute care - and are profitable (more or less). The other four are to service the ER - and are terribly costly. We also provide X-ray and some lab services. We can't keep a doctor in town. But we must have one on call to staff the ER. So we have a costly contract which brings doctors up here on a rotating basis. Not a great solution. Often people don't like what we get.

Not sure about mobile services. If we have them I'm not aware. The regional hospital is 65 miles away and is good enough to deliver most - but not all - services. The nearest full service hospital is 300 miles away.

There's an additional problem: We don't really get paid for the services we provide. Medicare, Medical, the insurance companies, the HMO's...none of them pay the real cost. We have to negociate for everything. AND we must take everyone - including complete indigents. If we could charge fair price for our services we wouldn't have a problem. But then virtually no one would have any medical care.

Barring some dramatic and unforeseen change in technology, the law, and/or organization the future is as you describe. Regional hospitals in the biggest towns in the counties. Smaller towns losing services and gradually drying up.