Libertarian Party Sides with Dodd, Boxer, Carter, -- Want to Lift Embargo of Cuba!

Libertarian Party ^ | 21 May 2002 | Libertarian Party

[CaptIsaacDavis]

See the link or http://www.lp.org/press/archive.php?function=view&record=583

[CaptIsaacDavis]

The Libertarians are out of their minds. Even Libs would acknowledge that in every marketplace there must be rules to prevent the unscrupulous -- like socialists and tyrants from manipulating the market. Let me get this straight -- it is NOT OK to let a large company adopt anti-trust practices, but it IS OK to "open" our market to trade with companies and countries that are unscrupulous MONOPOLIES. Regulation, in terms of penalties against fraud, requirements on disclosure, etc. actually work to enhance the efficiency of the market and therefore the ability of individuals to operate freely within that market. Within a relatively homogenous and defined community of free men and women like the USA, and the "Anglo bloc" or "dollar bloc," it is possible to create a regulated AND highly free marketplace. Now, imagine a model marketplace where we allow socialists and other tyrants to have a "seat" in the market. They are prepared to lose money and create excessive demand for basic raw materials (through inefficiencies) and thereby drive UP prices of commodities (case study: Soviet-led "socialist commonwealth") all in order to seize market share and drive competitors out of business. American businesses constrained by the rules of a "free market" and ROI don't have that luxury! OK, so the socialist monopoloy is prepared to sell you goods made by "Libertarian" concentration camp inmates, and you, the individual consumer will get the "benefits" of TEMPORARLY "cheaper" (better-hah!) goods. However, those goods won't be "cheap" for long, because in this model market -- the very same "open market" or "global market" that globalists like SecDef Rumsfeld and former Trade Ambassador Carla Hills want - the socialists and oligarchs will dictate prices at the margins -- and create disruptions that lead to demands for socialism! (subsidies for farmers the new wage insurance program, etc.) until they move to CHANGE the market once they have the bargaining power. And then the ability of that little infantile Lib to actually buy the goods he/she wants will decline, and decline, and, God forbid, drop to zero (yes, zero, witness Russia and even rural China). Where's the "freedom" in that? Infantile Libertarians are fundamentally myopic and fail to distinguish between trade and choice WITHIN a market and "choice" or trade BETWEEN markets. When we trade with socialist markets, and let them have a window into ours, we import their diseases. Bottom line: when a libertarian argues that he/she wants "cheaper" goods by buying from socialists they are arguing that they want to live in a socialist system!!!!!!!! Why do you think East Europeans didn't rebel MORE often against the Soviet system for so long -- it "cost" less to get basic goods and services from other socialist countries, like Cuba (supplier to EE of fruits, tobacco, other items, especially). And a Lib arguing that people should be "free" to "choose" to avoid them is a two-faced liar, because they are arguing FOR purchasing goods from a terrorist like Castro. TRADE WITH SOCIALISTS, COMPROMISE WITH SOCIALISM!!! That's "Libertarianism" today for you...

[Commander8]

Another disagreement with the LP to add to my last 1.)Double mindedness on abortion. 2.)Support for open borders. 3.)The fetish for drug legalization. 4.)Acceptance of the fact that they are a magnet for anarchists, militia types, and all sorts of other misfits.

[Mike Fieschko]

There is a long-standing approach/attitude/axiom/whatever in LP and libertarian thought that the 'good' is produced by 'uncoerced economic activity.'

Since, socially, for libertarians, good == absence of coercion, it's a bit of tautology.

It's also a playing fast and loose with the idea of 'good.'

When libertarians understand that virtue/good is not commensurate with 'uncoerced economic activity', then they stop being libertarians (speaking only from personal experience).

[coloradan]

In a free country, who is sovereign? Citizens, or the government?

[Commander8]

The citizens of course!!!

[coloradan]

The next question is, is America a free country?

[Kevin Curry]

The next question is, is America a free country?

Are you in prison?

[Commander8]

Not entirely.

[CaptIsaacDavis]

BINGO!!! You nailed them on the illogical of their positions -- commerce with "coerced economic" providers like Cuba is trading with the enemy.

[jlogajan]

TRADE WITH SOCIALISTS, COMPROMISE WITH SOCIALISM!!!

Does that mean I have to stop eating Quaker Oats?

[Kevin Curry]

You, like libertarian freakoid ThomasJefferson and loopy Christianity-despising jlogajan, are a whiny, snivelling boob. Get on your knees and thank God you are privileged to live in the greatest nation on earth--the noblest, most free, and prosperous nation in history.

Hundreds of thousands of men have died on behalf of your freedom. You dishonor their sacrifice.

[Mike Fieschko]

The next question is, is America a free country?

See REX v. HADDOCK [Is it a Free Country?]

The Court of Criminal Appeal considered to-day an important case involving the subject's rights and liberties, if any. ...

[Texasforever]

The next question is, is America a free country?

Is the Pope a Catholic? Does a bear crap in the woods? Is Pauly Shore a great actor? Is Doris Day a Virgin? Is every 12 year old a libertarian?

[Cultural Jihad]

Libertarian Party Sides with Dodd, Boxer, Carter...

Moral-liberal ideologues, all. Conservatives, none.

[hellonewman]

Well, why is GWB not calling for reinstating the embargo with the ChiComms? If embargoes worked -- i.e. if they toppled dictators -- Cuba, Red China and North Korea would have been free countries long ago. If embargoes worked, why is Saddam Hussein still a thorn in everyone's side.

One other thing. If products do not cross borders, neither will Bibles or missionaries. Why are so many Christians so pious about not trading with China, when trade with China is the one thing above all others that has allowed missionaries to go their and spread the Gospel?

Concerning the Libertarian Party, they are the ONLY party that adheres to the Constitution AS WRITTEN. I do not need a Supreme Court to tell me what the Constitution says any more than I need a priest to tell me what the Bible says.

Conservative big government is just as bad as liberal big government.

[Texasforever]

Concerning the Libertarian Party, they are the ONLY party that adheres to the Constitution AS WRITTEN.

In the 64 planks of the libertarian party platform, the constitution is mentioned 1 time. The libertarian constitution has yet to be written.

[Mike Fieschko]

Concerning the Libertarian Party, they are the ONLY party that adheres to the Constitution AS WRITTEN.

Bad news for the United States Air Force.

[Texasforever]

The next question is, is America a free country?

In the libertarian definition of "free" no it is not. Why? because the definition of "free" used by the libertarians is "At no cost". They freely partake of opportunities provided by just the existence of "America" but do not want to share the "costs" of taxes, military service, observance of the nation's laws or the requirement to hold at least a semblance of adult responsibility, self-sacrifice and moral restraint. So America is not "free" and it will never be "free at no cost". Get used to it.

[livis_dad]

How old is Castro? He's gotta be 75+ Why not just wait it out...

[Texasforever]

How old is Castro? He's gotta be 75+ Why not just wait it out...

I think it is evident that is what we are doing. However, Castro has people under him that make him look like Ronald Reagan. The embargo will be lifted if and when the Cuban people themselves overthrow the entire regime. The fact of thae matter is that Cuba has trade relations with everyone but us. The issue with Castro is a matter of principle with this country from the Cuban Missile Crisis to today. The fact of the matter is that the embargo is not hurting either side but Castro will never see the embargo lifted in his pathetic lifetime.