Another argument against women in the military

[Garegaupa]

I've been reading many interesting discussions concerning women in the military on these boards, but there is one subject that has been little mentioned. I'd like to get some comments on that.

Just so that's clear: I'm against women in the military (in combat positions, at least, but I suppose most positions in the military will become combat positions during a conflict). I agree what has been said about women lacking the necessary physical strength and endurance, being more prone to injuries, disrupting unit cohesion, not being mentally suited for combat and so on.

But, many people say, if a woman can perform as well as a man, shouldn't she then be allowed to serve where she pleases. I still say no. And now we're getting to the point of this post:

I am (both as a Christian and as a man) thoroughly convinced that men should protect and cherish women, and that any man who would willingly send a woman to fight in his stead is a criminal.

Since this view (as far as I can see) hasn't come up too often in the debate over whether women should serve in the military or not, I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person left on the planet who thinks this is a good principle. Ladies and gentlemen, what are your opinions on this matter?

Best regards, Garegaupa

[wingnuts'nbolts]

I somewhere read that there are more girl babies born each year than boys. But during WWII there were amazingly more boys born than girls. Nature's way of compensating?

As a woman I cannot imagine going into combat, but I am sure there are those who do want to do just that. There are some exceptions to that. Being a fighter pilot or a bomber pilot would be one. Mentally I think women are equal to men and would be capable of excelling as pilots in combat. But to be a grunt? Not in this life. I would never qualify for any special forces, not that I would even try.

As for women killing, I would have no problem killing someone threatening to harm or kill my family, or me, or my neighbor. I think most women are that way.

Having never been in military combat, just domestic like raising teenagers, taking care of ageing parents and keeping the wolves from the door, I have no clue how men with whom a woman is fighting, view her. I think it is natural for men to try to protect a woman, but I am sure training could stamp nature out. That is sad.

The bottom line is war is not recreation and we need the best fighting force available, not the most PC.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

While there are many patriotic women who want to serve their country, I am certain that the 10% figure for women in the military you have cited has much more to do with affirmative action goals for military recruiting than a sincere desire on the part of women to join the military.

I am a civil engineer. At the University of California at Davis, there were never more than 5% women in any of my upper division engineering courses. 95% of engineering students were men. Yet my engineering office with the State of California employes some 25% to 30% women. This is not because there is one woman for every 3 men who want a career as an engineer. This is because the State of California decided a long time ago that, "by damn, we WILL have female engineers."

For what it is worth, our female engineers have generally been excellent engineers. But before you accuse me of any hipocracy, they still have come at the expense of many men who as well would have made excellent engineers.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

I think I am young enough to have been spared watching most of the worst of American cultural decay. ( I was a grade-schooler in the turbulent '60s). Probably the worst thing I have seen in my lifetime has been the advent of political correctness, with its multi-culturalism shoved down my throat as if "different-culture" necessarily means "better culture -- which is patently false! -- with its thought police, diversity training, sexual harrassment and blatant censorship. But what I have seen in my lifetime still makes me furious. In some ways we are far, far better off than the generations before World War II, but overall I fear we are far worse off. Can I go back in time and start over?

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"It's career motivated more than patriotism or duty."

I'd be interested in your explanation why the women at the local Coast Guard base
risk their lives everytime they go out on a rescue.
I have seen them do it numerous times myself.
They get no preferential treatment at all.
If you've ever been out in the ocean during a storm on a 47' rescue boat
you'd realize it's more dangerous than combat.
Here's what one looks like in relativley calm conditions.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

see post 65

[Saturnalia]

Random fact of the day:

Dr. Ruth (yes, the sex therapist) was trained as a sniper by the IDF.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

I find it interesting and encouraging that many young women are chosing to stay home and raise the children while their husbands work out of the home. Many career doors have opened to them, thanks to the trailblazing of previous generations.

Yet many of them saw how their own mothers were stressed out and unhappy, or even suffered depression, trying to have it all -- a family and a successful career. Many of these young women felt neglected by their own mothers and while they love their parents, want to provide their own children with something better. So they stay home and raise them rather than send them off to day-care to be raised. We will see if the trend continues.

[PayrollOffice]

I somewhere read that there are more girl babies born each year than boys. But during WWII there were amazingly more boys born than girls. Nature's way of compensating?

It may be because the product of very passionate sex (on the part of the male) tends to be male progeny. These days, those conceived in this manner tend to be aborted. Lazy sex on the part of the male tends to produce females.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"I am certain that the 10% figure for women in the military you have cited has much more to do with affirmative action goals for military recruiting than a sincere desire on the part of women to join the military."

Hey Sandy, you want to answer this one for you and Trish.
Freedom_Is_Not_Free FYI Sandy is active duty Navy and her sister is active duty Marine (just returned from Afganistain).

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

I have no doubt that many women have the courage, toughness and stamina to perform in combat or under hazardous duty. Courage and toughness come from inside and to generalize that women can't be courageous or tough would be completely false. I simply feel it is morally wrong for men to send women off to fight and die. A woman performing Air-Sea Rescue has a reasonable expectation of survival. Isn't that what all the training and equipment are for after all? But a woman performing a front-line combat role has no such expectation.

It is morally wrong for a civilized culture to send women or children into war to fight and die. War stinks. It is to be avoided. It is a last resort. Where a physical fight is required in defense or for survival, you have alreade failed in every other respect to avoid confrontation or to achieve peace by negotiation. When war cannot be avoided, women and children should not be sent to fight and to die. It is bad enough to send young men into the meat grinder. It is just plain evil to send young women.

[PayrollOffice]

Ahh what the hell, you can,t go back so all the women can do is live and learn. I just hate to listen to all the whining these young girls are going to do over the choices they made and the feminazis made for them.

The Islamic world says you can go back. I wonder if this is an example of why many women (Democrats)unconsciously support a mass movement in direct opposition to what they publicly proclaim. (Make me do it and I'll be happy).

[wardaddy]

I do not think women's bravery aboard Coastie boats elevates them to LLRP or Sec-Ops or just plain foot pounding grunt status.

I am not a US military vet but spent the majority of my adult life living overseas in conflict zones and have survived through war environments as an armed civilian. I will defer to your Red Mustache point of view on women coastie pilots but you are in a tiny minority of vets whom I know or know of who support women's full integration into our military either in training or combat.

I respectfully disagree.

As to motivation. I have seen a number of John Wayne volunteers and God bless them.....mainly rural and Southern white boys who sign up vying for units most likely to see action. Aside from some estrogen lacking women pilots, I do not think most women join the military to go slog it out in hardcore comabt environs. They do it for the same reason most folks do it unless reacting to a war call. They do eat for the career, the tuition, the benefits, and early retirement.....same as most goverment lifers aside from the select few true warriors. Women are well suited for spying and intelligence gathering but that is another matter and another set of talents.

I am a former ship owner for a number of years. Medium sized tramps/break-bulk/ro-ro types....I'm not suprised we disagree...LOL....you guys busted my balls for years. I was based in Miami.....yeah...I know Coasties well.

Aye-Aye sir....I will indeed maintain speed and direction Sir!!.....just get your hands off that quad 50 on the bow!...LOL

Regards.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"Where a physical fight is required in defense or for survival,
you have alreade failed in every other respect to avoid confrontation or to achieve peace by negotiation."

How did the United States fail on 9/11??????

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

This is an excellent source to support your argument. It's the Center for Military Readiness and is very much against women in combat. Notice how many lawsuits the women in the military file against their superiors.

Center For Military Readiness

[PayrollOffice]

It is morally wrong for a civilized culture to send women or children into war to fight and die. War stinks. It is to be avoided. It is a last resort.

When righteousness is exhausted and there arises unrighteousness on a massive scale, the infinte wisdom of God, or the eternal intelligence of the universe comes into play to restore goodness. It is at this juncture that war can no longer be avoided. It is at this point that God steps in to restore goodness.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"point of view on women coastie pilots"

I never saw a Coastie woman pilot, just the women who are on the boats.
As you probably know the coast in the Pacific Nortwest is very brutal.
Both the men and women in the Coast Guard up here risk their lives saving people.
I've yet to hear a boat say "Don't send any women." LOL

[PayrollOffice]

I agree. Women really don't belong in the military except if there are not enough able-bodied men available.