U.S. Chopper Loaded With Troops Shotdown in E. Afghanistan

MSNBC Breaking Live

[RCW2001]

MSNBC reporting unknown casualties, CNN reporting multiple casualties... Developing...

[JimSEA]

Let us also include JFK (Sen. John Kerry of Mass.) who, according to CNN said over the weekend: "Those who try to stifle the vibrancy of our democracy and shield policies from scrutiny behind a false cloak of patriotism miss the real value of what our troops defend."

And the beat goes on....... Perhaps the Senator is confusing stifling Democrats with stifling democracy. Given the situation internationally, I don't really see how Bush could have been more clear.

[A. Pole]

Thats a bunch of bunch Utopia crap that wont work. BOMB BOMB BOMB.

My dear, you are confusing the muscle strength with the intelligence. Trying to build the order on the brute force ALONE and on wishful thinking can be quite utopian, believe me.

Russian proverb: "Sila yest, uma nie nada" ("The strength is there so the reason is not needed".)

[MickMan51]

Hey Buyer, thanks for compiling that list of evidence (links) showing how Dashole and the Dems are assualting this president, this war, and our solemn right to avenge the attacks on this great and free nation.

[thirst4truth]

You are so brave for being without him for 6 months. My son is due to go out for three months on a ballistic sub. Its his first deployment since he joined in Sep. 2000. A sub seems like a fairly safe place to be in this war. God Bless you

[irish_lad]

Going nuclear at this point would be a disasterous move for us. There is no reason to do so unless we find the enemy has biological, nuclear, or chemical weapons. Once the nuclear cat is out of the bag, Katy bar the door.

[El Gato]

Daschole wants details of U.S. war plans

Give them to some of the Senate staff, and not a few Senators too, and they'd be in Baghdad, Tehran, and P'yongyang the next day. Still a bunch of left over "peace" commies from the 60s and 70s hanging around there.

[txhurl]

Additionally, in g-force conditioning, men tend to crap out at about 6 Gs where women were still filing their nails at 9+ Gs.

I'll spend all day looking for that reference if need be.

[ladtx]

I dunno about your claims of Chinook CH-47 reliability. Marine's and Navy don't call em "froggers" because of their propensity to stay aloft, but because of their ability to return to earth quite a bit.

True, the Chinook may not be quite as reliable as the old UH-1, but it is a more complicated aircraft with many more systems that can fail. But (and it is a big BUT), any maintenance reliability rate is only as good as the Maintenance Officer. I have no complaints about the reliability, I can only remember a couple of times when I was unable to complete a mission due to maintenance malfunctions.

[fix]

Marine's and Navy don't call em "froggers" because of their propensity to stay aloft, but because of their ability to return to earth quite a bit. Once again, folks speaking of that which they know nothing about. They do not call them "froggers". They call them "frogs", usually spelled "phrogs". This dates back to their debut in Vietnam where it was noticed that they looked like bullfrogs when viewed from a certain angle.

[El Gato]

Chinooks are used in deep artillery raids and the 160th (Nightstalkers) put them to good use in their ops. A good pilot can make that aircraft do amazing things, plus it is equipped with flare dispensers to throw heat-seekers off track

CBS radio reports it was hit by an RPG, so flares wouldn't have helped a bit. From talking to a former Army test pilot, and an ex Marine CH-46 pilot (similar design), they are vulnerable if hit in the right place. That dual rotor system is mechanically synchronised and if the gear train skips a tooth somewhere, the blades run into each other, not good.

Same report indicated that the troops found themselves surrounded and in a firefight when they went down. Shades of Somalia. I think the enemy had the same trainers in both cases. 'Course this time the AC-130s and BUFFs are on station, as well as fighers and Apache gunships.

[cake_crumb]

I was referring to your reply #56. I must have misunderstood. If so, my sincere apologies.

Yep: GOD BLESS ALL OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN UNIFORM!

[MickMan51]

in g-force conditioning, men tend to crap out at about 6 Gs where women were still filing their nails at 9+ Gs.

I'll spend all day looking for that reference if need be.

That's a new one to me. I would be interested in seeing the data on that.

[fix]

Anything is vulnerable if hit in the right place.

[Physicist]

I think it is a mistake to try to run Afghanistan and to micromanage it. Much better would be to sincerely induce Afghans to form a leadership based on the grassroot consensus involving those called "warlords" who are the natural leaders for their society.

Unfortunately, the consensus in Afghanistan is to fight each other. If a stable situation is ever reached by that road, it will be one where Afghanistan is broken into a thousand tribal monarchies, which is about as fertile a ground for terrorism as you could ask for.

Personally, I would put the region under iron-fisted, velvet-gloved American hegemony, much like Japan and Germany after WWII. A few decades under such custodianship might civilize them, but more importantly it will make other nations think twice about attacking America.

[My Favorite Headache]

We then can call it MESSA.

[archy]

Women don't fly choppers in combat. Check the rulebook.

That will come as a great comfort to Colonel Rhonda L. Cornum, who as a Major during Operation Desert Storm, was shot down while flying a CSAR [Combat Search And Rescue] mission for a downed Air Force F-16 pilot, though in a UH-60 Blackhawk rather than a Sh!!hook. Of her crew, 5 were killed, and the three survivors, were taken as POWs, including Major Cornum.

If, God forbid, I ever require the services of a frontline medic again, or if I ever need a ride out of a bad place in a medevac/casevac chopper, I will not be at all displeased to see the smiling face of Doc Cornum, whether hauling an M3 medic's bag around or at the controls of the dustoff bird, though she now more appropriately runs the 28th Combat Support Hospital at Ft Bragg. Like any good combat medic, I'd expect though that she'll still make the *house calls* if that's what it takes to save a few lives.

And if as is more likely, I see the smiling face instead of some other liar who tells me it's not all that bad, male or female, if they are anywhere near as well trained, experienced and dedicated as Colonel Cornum, who has been the one to train quite a few of those now hearing shots fired their way, I figure I'll be in the best hands possible. I figure quite a few of those now in Afghanistan now hearing those shots are personally and professionally familiar with Colonel Cornum and her work, and it would neither surprise nor disappoint me in the slightest if she's there with them.

[Magnum44]

These bastards that are fighting against us were probably former captives; let free by our Paki. & Afghan allies(??).

Very like for some, but we should not underestimate the number of those from that region who hate us and have yet to be engaged in battle. The estimates of volunteer 'jihaders' is in the hundreds of thousands. The come from those 'religious' schools all over Afghanistan, Pakistan, and throughout the region. And yes, I hope they are exterminated.

[cake_crumb]

"Thanks for all the comments. I am with out a tv right now and appreciate all I have learned from this thread. Please keep us up dated"

FR is the best source of news and research to be found in one place on the web. Have you tried that Sky News site? I don't know the URL, but I remember there's a FReeper who recommended it once. Fox New's sister station in Briton...I'll see if I can find the URL.

[txhurl]

It was a PBS(?) doc, and I will try to find it.

It showed the pilots passing out at various Gs in centrifuge-type training.

[d14truth]

I guess it just depends on the 'definition' of war. Innocents get killed as 'legalists' wrangle. Every war that I can ever think of started before its written or authorized 'declaration'.