[TomSmedley]

It's hard enough being a Christian in America with the stands that the Bible demands we make. But by the grace of God, I can handle that. If God said it, well bummer if I take heat for it.

The problem I have is when we start making our little clubhouse rules of all our taboos and things that we don't do, even if Scripture nowhere denounces the things that we do. We're known as the goody guys who don't do this and don't do that, yet how many outsiders can tell us what Christians really stand for? And even if they could say that, how many outsiders can say they've ever seen us live what we stand for?

Prohibition -- the effort by deluded Christians to impose unbiblical taboos by political force -- was a major setback for legitimate Christian political action. Catholics use "sacrementals," material objects believe to possess mystic properties. As a substitute for obedience, Protestants sometimes use "reverse sacrementals," and demonize selected material items.

[riley1992]

"Even though the ban is voluntary," says Fuller, "I've got a teen and a pre-teen son at home, and this makes me angry because this is obviously motivated by corporate greed, a desire to put the money in, without any regard to the consequences to the viewers and the people who are affected by those who drink that hard liquor."

How dare those evil capitalists make money and force you to parent your children!

[TomGuy]

Didn't Jesus turn water into wine? Hmmmmm

[AppyPappy]

Prohibition -- the effort by deluded Christians

It's amazing how willing people are to absorb falsehoods to match their own prejudices.

Prohibition was a WOMEN'S issue. It was tied to women's sufferage. There is no way the Catholic church would have allowed Prohibition if it was a "Christian" issue.

[twinzmommy]

I don't understand something here. . .doesn't something like 96% of our country profess to be Christian? If that's the case, then there are an awful lot of Christians who drink.

Besides, the drink kids tend to go after, BEER, has always been advertised on TV. Somehow I don't think that advertising liquor is going to step up kids drinking it.

People are ignorant if they think that kids can't get whatever they want.

twinzmommy

[mutchdutch]

Having grown up in a home where my Dad had a drinking problem, I am glad for every limiting factor there was. The state ran the liqour stores then so the only thing in Iowa bars was beer. AND BELIEVE ME, THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE WHEN HE DRANK BEER AND WHEN HE DRANK THE HARD STUFF.

I am also glad there was limits on gambling. If the lottery existed then, he would have lost the farm.

If you make it easy for people to do it, they will do it, if you make it hard, they won't.

[gortklattu]

Dobson's an influence-mad rationalizer who should butt out of politics. The opulent surroundings of his "Foc-us in the fanny" in Colorado Springs speak volumes of the religious nature of his organization: money first, religion as the method.

What's funny about his buildings is that they look like a prison.

[SamAdams76]

What's this guy talking about? There have been liquor ads on TV ever since I can remember. Usually dumb ads by Anheuser-Busch that lead you to believe that popping a can of their watery, weak, disgusting "beer" will result in half-naked women suddenly appearing next to you.

I wish some companies that made real beer would start advertising more so that maybe more people would be aware that real beer exists.

[Libertarian_4_eva]

Hard Liquor is almost always sold in Liquor stores. Beer on the otherhand is sold in everything from gas stations to supermarkets. Beer is so common that its far more likely that kids will buy it at someplace like a deli then hard booze at a liquor store.

[lds23]

Be fruitful, and multiply

I daresay without beer there'd be a lot less of that going on.

[parsifal]

"These greedy corporations, say Dobson and Co., are going to cause a great moral upheaval in our country. "

Yeah sure. And if we let that Elvis Presley get up on TV and wiggle and gyrate in a sexual manner, our young people will start having premarital sex and dressing wierd and all kinds of wierdo freaks will take over the music world and. . .oops bad example. Nevermind. parsy.

[Dumb_Ox]

For the past 200 years Americans have been told that the Bible forbids drinking alcoholic beverages. Not so. By careful lexical, exegetical and theological examination, Kenneth L. Gentry concludes that Scripture allows wine to be consumed both for health and pleasure—but in moderation.

"Breaking News: Wine served at Last Supper!"

[RnMomof7]

I belong to the same demnonation as Dobson. Members do not smoke,drink or gamble.It is a "holiness" church.I am also a former alcohol and drug counselor , However I would however take issue with him on this ..drinking is not a sin..abuse of Alcohol is. There is a big difference. I have made a choice not to drink or smoke for health and religious reasons.

He is wrong on this. America allows people to worship as they please and this is a religious issue to me.

[Sci Fi Guy]

There's a little problem in the logic here. Focus on the Family apparently believes that ads which say "Drink Responsibly"—at least those are the only ones that I've seen on NBC so far—are going to cause your children to have sex and die. Whoa, Dobson, whoa. What about parental responsibility and education of children? What about parents teaching their kids right and wrong?

Wow, drink responsibly! I guess that those liquor companies are going to spend millions on advertising that won't increase their sales. They must care. Every other company buys advertising to increase sales of their product. But not liquor companies. They do it to encourage their customers to "drink responsibly."

Of course parental responsibility is important. But it has it's limits. It cannot stop the drunk driver. It won't be there when the peer pressure to drink increases. It won't help their child's friend whose parent becomes abusive when they drink. But then again that's not why people use that cute little line about parental responsibility. It's said because it sounds a lot better than saying we just don't want to be bothered by other people's problems.

The problem I have is when we start making our little clubhouse rules of all our taboos and things that we don't do, even if Scripture nowhere denounces the things that we do. We're known as the goody guys who don't do this and don't do that, yet how many outsiders can tell us what Christians really stand for? And even if they could say that, how many outsiders can say they've ever seen us live what we stand for?

Well we know what James Dobson stands for. He's spent his entire life trying to help parents raise their children, and to help couples stay together. He's led efforts to help seniors, teenagers, and children. He founded the Family Research Council, a leading thinktank for the conservative movement. And he's helped people overcome their addictions. Isn't that funny, an organization concerned about addictions, is also concerned about increasing liquor sales. Who would have suspected it?

Say jamey what are you for?

[Sci Fi Guy]

Maybe Focus on the Family has a reason to be concerned about drinking and children. Perhaps people should hear what The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University (CASA) has to report.

[Bigg Red]

Catholics use "sacrementals," material objects believe to possess mystic properties...

A lie! Psst! Your bias is showing.

[101viking]

I see that the fundamental problems lie far deeper than the liquor cabinet. The media has sold us a bill of goods for years, and has turned many of us into status seekers, including how we raise our children. Most parents feel that how their child turns out or how the child behaves is solely a refelection on the parents as individuals. If parents would conecentrate unselfishly on the child themself, many of these situations could be adverted. Instead people listen to talk radio, watch day time talk shows and see kids as robotic creatures, that can be "fixed" universally with generic psycho-babble.

Children are merely minature adults in training, there are some that are bright, and some that are not so bright. There are those that because of their internal psyche have more of propensity to get into mischief. They are as individual as their parents, and need to be recognized as such and dealt with accordinglly. Some mature faster than others, and may require that they be informed about the ways of the world and life at a younger age, some may not be ready until later. It is a parent's responsibility to take the time to know their child and gain an understanding of them as individuals. If a child appears to be a high acheiver, a parent needs to recognize this and help steer the child towards things that will stimulate them and hold their interest. If a child is an under acheiver, then the parent should recognize this as well, and try to help focus the child on life path that is suitable for them. I have a friend who has a 10 year old boy, who I would classify as "not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed." His parents have dreams of Harvard for him, and frankly it won't ever happen. However, they are pushing this kid beyond his abilities and it is sure to back fire on them some day. What I see there is that the parents out of their own selfishnes for status, have set unreasonable goals for their son. He is doomed to fail from the start.

[razorbak]

NS_ActualOpen=window.open; function NS_NullWindow(){this.window;} function NS_NewOpen(url,nam,atr){return(new NS_NullWindow());} window.open=NS_NewOpen; Wine _ KeralaBrethren.net

Wine

Many people have been mislead by ignorance and misunderstanding of the word 'wine' in the Bible. Unbelievers and drinkers support themselves that "it is in the Bible" while christians do not really know "what is in the Bible" is not for liquor but against it.

The much talked about incident on this topic as narrated in the Bible is Christ's first miracle of turning water into wine (John 2:1-10). The fact is that many Greek, Hebrew and Chaldee word, are indiscriminately translated as wine where as it may actually mean a non - intoxicant, or a food or a fresh grape juice which is not fermented. The fresh grape juice is usually boiled to make it like thick molasses and is stored in large jars. This is eaten by spreading on bread or taken as a drink mixing with water.

Read John 2:9 and 10. The governor of the feast called the bridegroom and said unto him - every man at the beginning gives good wine and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse. But you have kept the good wine.

The Roman writer Pliny records that when grape juice is boiled down to one third of its bulk to get the finest flavor, it is called "Sapa" or the best wine. And this was the wine Jesus produced - sapa, which is unintoxicating and unfermented wine.

Isaiah 55:1 says - Come, buy wine and milk without price or money. Here the preserved grape juice called sweet wine is mixed with milk.

Another place of reference about wine that is usually misunderstood is 1Timothy 5:23 which reads: Drink no longer water but a little wine for your stomach's sake and your often infirmities. The fact according to writers of old Greek medicine, is that the grape juice is prepared as a thick unfermented syrup for use as a food for dyspeptic and weak persons. Pliny, who lived in the apostolic age writes: the beverage is given to invalids to whom wine may prove injurious.

Therefore, it is no more true to say that the word wine always meant intoxicating and fermented wine than to say that "bread" always means leavened bread. The word "ionos" (wine) is sometimes used to mean both fermented and unfermented wine. In Haggai 1:11 we read: I called for a drought upon the corn and upon the new wine. Here the word means growing grapes because the draught will have no effect on the bottled wine. Such translations may be misleading; instead of new wine, wine fruit (thirosh) could be used.

Luke 5:37-39 makes the meaning more clear: No man putteth new wine (fresh grape juice) into old bottles, else the new wine will burst the bottle and the (fermented) wine be spilled and the bottles shall perish. New wine must be kept in new bottles and both will be preserved.

As in Isaiah 65:8, "as the new wine is found in the cluster," the word wine also means grape juice.

There are examples in the literature apart from the Bible too:
Columella: unintoxicating good wine. Varro speaks of hanging wine.
Cato: hanging wine - grapes on the wine.
Ovid: And scarce can the grapes contain the wine they have within.
Ibycus: And the newborn clusters team with wine beneath the shadowy foliage of the vine.
Goethe: And bending down, the grapes overflow with wine into the vat below.

When we are ignorant of the various meanings of the word wine we are mislead to mean what the Lord did not mean himself. The four passages of the account of the institution of the Lord's supper (Mathew 26: 26-29, Mark 14:22-25, Luke 22:15-20 and I Corinthians 11:23-26) have never used over the word wine (oinos). It is "fruit of the wine".

Warning against drunkenness:- Deut.21:20, Prov.20:1, 21:17, 23:20, 23:29-31,31:4-6, Eccl.10:17, 15:5, 11, 19:28, 1:7, 1sa.56:9-12, Hab.2:15, Luk.21:34, Rom.13:13, 1Cor. 6:10, Eph. 5:18.

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Use the Online Bible for immediate reference to the verses

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[Khepera]

The Bible does not say "Don't Drink" It says "Dont get drunk". You can drink responsibly and not get drunk. We should be pushing that message and not the prohibition message. In fact I think our government does push the don't get drunk (and drive) message rather well. On the other hand I think it would be better of folks did not drink and I think it is acceptible to tell people that as well. I support Dr. Dobsons efforts to get the message out that its not good to drink. I would not support prohibition by the government.