Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Opinion: Hockey Dad Verdict Backwards
vanity | 1/27/02 | moodyskeptic

Posted on 01/27/2002 8:48:53 AM PST by moodyskeptic

I'm sorry, but someone has to voice it: the little guy had it coming. Sucker punching a man 110 pounds your better is unwise, and the little antagonist Micheal Costin was in the wrong in the heated exchange that claimed his life.

At first, I was going along with the dominant media, insisting that this Sports Rage is out of hand and that the killer was a bully who should get the electric chair. But, being a Freeper, I have learned to check my emotional response to "big stories" and get more information before I choose sides. I wanted to hate the Big Bully Thomas Junta, he was reportedly a huge man. Then I realized that he's about my size, I'm 6'1", 255. I'm no giant. And I've spent an adulthood targeted by stupid little hot headed roosters who like to pick fights they can't win. Any big guy will tell you: you learn to be the cooler head and attempt to walk away. Expect no sympathy in ANY altercation.Little guys with an agenda are everywhere, perhaps they were traumatized, they didn't get chosen for teams or were ignored by daddy, whatever.Genetics made us big, not weightlifting. We are what our ancestors were, fat or big or strong or smart or devious or small or kind or mean. There are few truly mean big guys.

It turns out that the little guy Costin was allowing high sticking and rough contact during stick practice, and when the Big Dumb Guy showed up to protest, Costen shot back that hockey is a tough game, get over it. Costin was in the wrong. He should've relented and shut up. But he was the hot head of the two and wouldn't drop it. In the dressing room, he sucker punched the bigger man and kicked at him with his skates as they continued arguing. This chicken spit tactic should've gotten him clobbered right then.True to Big Guy form, Junta went out to his truck to simmer down, only to return when he realized that his son was still in a locker room with a crazy father and his roughneck kids. Let's honestly add to that the humiliation of being sucker punched and walking away from it.

I don't know how many of you freepers have been in an inadvertant serious fight with guys who play dirty. Apparently very few. Surely the pixie woman prosecutor was in unfamiliar waters, judging by her questions. " So, this meant you had to resort to violence, Mr. Junta?" Huh? She ever experienced anything beyond her suburan car pool existance?

Wise fathers tell their boys: don't smart off to cops, don't hit women, don't pick fights you can't possibly win. Attacking a man 110 pounds bigger than you, when you are IN THE WRONG morally, is unwise. While I'm very sad that Costin died. Really. However, putting the Big Dumb father in jail for six to ten years send the message: Open Season on big guys, a jury packed with people who got overlooked when choosing sides for dodgeball will exact revenge on the Big Bully, and you can be as mean and smart alecky as you want at that next sporting event.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 161-162 next last
To: moodyskeptic
" Both of these guys were out of control. Both were wrong. But, in no way did Consit have it (death) coming to him."

I'll half agree here. Dose the Junta family need to be without a father for ten years because his trial became a movie of the week?

Half agree? Three parts to the statement. Please explain!

61 posted on 01/27/2002 9:53:55 AM PST by sausageseller
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: moodyskeptic
What about his previous arrests for domestic violence against his wife , and an attack on a police officer? This doesn't sound like a "gentle giant" to me, but a guy with a history of using violence when he felt he was entitled to. I agree with the poster who said both men sounded like scumbags not worth losing sleep over.
62 posted on 01/27/2002 9:54:02 AM PST by kaylar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LibWhacker
I didn't make this America' biggest post attack story, the lamestream press did. They bent the reporting to conform to their POV.

1. Sports parents can be loud jerks, I agree, and have always been the loner parent off to the side, shutting my mouth.

2. Some parents errupt into fight-pickers. I hate those people.

3. This has very little to do with the Junta/Costin tragedy. The press should not have spun this as an indictment on Sports Parents.

4. This became a revenge motif on Big Bullys. Big or little, bullys eventually run into karma.

63 posted on 01/27/2002 9:57:08 AM PST by moodyskeptic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: My back yard
Because quick blows to the windpipe are not allowed?

Such talk is dangerous. It gives women (and sometimes small men) a false sense of security.

What happens when your quick blow misses? Normally, such a move requires the element of surprise. If he is the aggressor (if not, why are you hitting him?) you will not have surprise on your side.

I've talked to women who are confident they can easily disable a man just by using their knee to his groin. They don't realize that guarding against this move is about the first thing a man learns on the playground in elementary school.

Although your basic premise is correct. The weaker person's only hope is all-out attack aimed at disabling the other. Defensive moves are totally useless. The longer the fight lasts the greater the odds against the smaller person become.

64 posted on 01/27/2002 9:57:30 AM PST by Restorer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: moodyskeptic
6'6" - 225 pounds here. You are entitled to your opinion, but if I were you I wouldn't put it into practice if ever in the same type situation. The law is pretty clear that having someone under physical control and continuing to hit them is not self defense. I agree with it.
65 posted on 01/27/2002 9:58:26 AM PST by Arkinsaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: moodyskeptic
Actually, I agree with you. What is being extinguished here are the concepts that
(A) A man is responsible for the results of his own actions and
(B)A man has a right to self-defense.

People are failing to distinguish between the two fighters in the same way they can't distinguish between the actions of the Palis and Israelis.

BTW, I heard the poor "victim" was a wife beater.

66 posted on 01/27/2002 9:58:40 AM PST by Lion's Cub
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: moodyskeptic
You started off by saying that Costin, the little guy, "had it coming". Since he ended up dead what else could you have meant but that he deserved to die? There's only one way to read it.

I've broken up plenty of fights, both while LEO and afterwards. You're right, it is difficult. In the context of this story though that is besides the point. The point of law is that Junta continued to pound "the little guy" long after he had him under control. That is what the jury heard. That is what makes it manslaughter. That is why Junta is in prison.

The question of whether or not his kids deserve to be without their dad for ten years is irrelevant. The prisons are full of dads who are paying the price for their criminal actions. The real question is; Does Junta deserve to be in prison? The answer is yes.

You and I were probably raised with the same sense of ethic and justice. Something about this case seems to be touching an emotional, rather than an objective nerve with you. We all experience this over certain issues. This is understandable. The law however is clear.

67 posted on 01/27/2002 10:01:06 AM PST by wtc911
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
The "farm boy" took out Andre the Giant...btw, "Hello. My name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

"stop saying that!"

FMCDH

68 posted on 01/27/2002 10:01:24 AM PST by nothingnew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: sausageseller
" Both of these guys were out of control. Both were wrong. But, in no way did Consit have it (death) coming to him."

Half agree? Three parts to the statement. Please explain!

Sorry, I'll be clearer. I don't think that Junta was any where near as out of control as Costin was. Costin was hotter, meaner, more insistant and more devious in his attacks. In this sense, Costin was "more wrong". But, yes, I heartily agree that Costin did not deserve to die. Like many deaths, his death was tragic, but not exactly murderous.

69 posted on 01/27/2002 10:03:32 AM PST by moodyskeptic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: moodyskeptic
No flame from here.

I am disturbed by the fact that Costin had a serious record for violent crime. 30 arrests, 7 terms in prison or jail for up to 15 months, including felony assault on a police officer. Junta had no such history.

In the real world, stupidity is a capital crime. Maybe Costin just ran out of luck.

70 posted on 01/27/2002 10:04:29 AM PST by Navy Patriot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wtc911
The manager of the rink testified very convincingly that, in spite of her screams for him to stop, Junta kept pounding Costin, bouncing his head off the ice. That's manslaughter.

I don't know how viciously Junta bounced Costin's head off the ice, whether or not Costin was unconscious at the time, nor if those blows were the fatal ones. It seems to me that all of those things should be taken into consideration. But I do know this: in the middle of what you might perceive to be a life-and-death struggle, you ARE NOT obligated to take the advice of the nearest hysterical woman.

71 posted on 01/27/2002 10:06:35 AM PST by LibWhacker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: nothingnew
Yeah, but Montoya had spent his entire life preparing himself for that fight. And the use of any weapons change the equation away from size and toward skill. With firearms or other missile weapons, when the two combatants are equally skilled the larger one has a slight disadvantage. He's a bigger target. Andre would be a MUCH bigger target.

Not that they were using firearms in the Princess Bride.

72 posted on 01/27/2002 10:07:57 AM PST by Restorer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: moodyskeptic
LYNN, Massachusetts (AP) -- The only solace Gus Costin finds sometimes is in the strand of bedside rosary beads given to him by his grandmother. He pulls the beads from their pouch almost every night and asks why his life turned out like it did.

Costin asks about that night 27 years ago when he says he accidentally killed his son during a fight. He ponders the loss of his second son, who was fatally beaten by a man after their sons' hockey practice a year and a half ago.

"What are the odds of a father having two sons dying the way my two sons died?" Costin asked. "About a billion to one."

"Why (God) did this, I'll know someday," he added.

Costin is full of conflicting emotions as he awaits the sentencing next week of Thomas Junta, who was convicted of killing son Michael Costin in the hockey fight. That's because Costin himself was convicted of manslaughter in the beating of his other son, Dennis.

Costin sees Junta's sentencing January 25 as a chance to put one chapter behind him.

Costin said Junta must go to jail for what he did, but he's not calling for a long sentence. During the trial, he approached Junta and said he forgave him. Junta could get anywhere from probation to 20 years.

"I'm leaving it up to the judge," Costin said. "Whatever comes down, let's accept it."

Today, Costin, 68, lives alone in an apartment near downtown Lynn, the Boston-area suburb where he was born.

The bald and solidly built man talks expansively and tends to ramble, his throat narrowing and eyes filling with tears when the subject turns to his sons, his estranged wife and daughter, the grandchildren he can no longer see, and how things got to be the way they are.

The former Raytheon technician married his wife, Joan, in 1957 and their two boys were born soon after.

Both sons developed drinking problems. The deadly confrontation between Costin and his son Dennis started when the son came home drunk, the father said.

Costin said he grabbed a hunting knife from under his son's pillow during the fight. He said the younger Costin rushed him in their kitchen, running into the knife. The knife pierced Dennis through the heart.

After Gus Costin's 1976 conviction, he said, he was sentenced to six months in a work release program. He thought his family understood the death was an accident, but his marriage fell apart, and his relationship with Michael was severely strained.

Costin's former wife, Joan, declined comment. His daughter, Mary Barbuzzi, would not discuss specifics about the family, except to say, "The information he gives you is inaccurate. He isn't considered a part of this family and hasn't been for a while."

Michael Costin grew up to have numerous run-ins with the law, costing him custody of his four children for several years. He had seven prison stints between 1983 and 1995 on charges of breaking and entering, drunken driving and assaulting a police officer. He also spent time in psychiatric hospitals.

But his family said he was a good father and had been sober when he was killed by Junta.

Gus Costin, who for a time had custody of Michael's sons, Brendan and Michael, agreed that his son was turning his life around, but added he wasn't convinced he was ready to be a father.

His fight for custody of the boys further alienated Michael. He said he didn't even find out Michael had been hurt in the fight with Junta until after he died.

Now, a restraining order taken against him for allegedly threatening his former wife -- which Costin denies -- means he can't see the grandchildren.

Costin says the separation from the children is devastating. His refrigerator is covered with school papers from the boys. His walls are plastered with their pictures. He keeps their room as a sort of shrine, their posters and sports trophies all in place.

Costin said he sees the grandsons as God's replacements for the sons he lost, and said he'll keep fighting to see them "until they throw dirt on me." Several times in a recent interview, he mistakenly used his grandson's name, Brendan, when talking about his son Dennis.

Costin said he's saddened that he never got the chance to make peace with Michael. But he hopes death has resolved any doubts Michael had about Dennis' killing.

"Michael is with Dennis now. Michael knows now that I never meant any harm," Costin said. "If he ever had any doubts, now he knows the truth. ...In my heart, I'm sure he knew I loved him."

73 posted on 01/27/2002 10:12:39 AM PST by Private Pyle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wtc911
well stated. I'll concede those points.

You are right, it's too close to me. I've been jumped and kept my cool, but it was unbelievably HARD to do. The adrenalin pump was downright scary. I hardly recognized myself as I was fending off suckerpunches and talking calmly. Later, when the cops dropped me off a safe distance, my heart was still pounding, and I realized how close I'd come to throwing my adult life away.

People, it happens quickly, and you shouldn't criticize too easily unless you've lived it.

74 posted on 01/27/2002 10:13:14 AM PST by moodyskeptic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: LibWhacker
"You are not obligated to take the advice of the nearest hysterical woman".

You are obligated not to keep pounding someone until he is dead. That is what Junta did. That is what the multiple witnesses testified. That is what the jury heard. That is what the defense could not dispute. That is what makes it manslaughter. That is why Junta is where he should be.

75 posted on 01/27/2002 10:15:45 AM PST by wtc911
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: moodyskeptic
I'm 6'3" and 240#. The only fight I ever lost was to a 5'8" 140# former Marine, but he didn't win for free. He took twenty+ stitches and several broken and cracked ribs and he's still my friend today.
76 posted on 01/27/2002 10:19:08 AM PST by eloy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
I wasn't seriously disagreeing with you. I personally have always managed to avoid such confrontation by using my good brain, usually to avoid certain places and people. But even that isn't enough sometimes, as this terrible event proves.
77 posted on 01/27/2002 10:28:29 AM PST by My back yard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: Navy Patriot
Yes, Junta did have such a history: Hockey dad faced earlier charges
78 posted on 01/27/2002 10:33:19 AM PST by pubmom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
I've been following your comments about size in a fight, and you're absolutely correct. I taught self-defense for many years, have two black belts, several colored belts, and I'm a veteran of many a bar room brawl. At my full adult (male) height of five feet and one inches, I'm accutely aware of how quickly a fight can turn against a larger, faster, stronger (and in recent years) younger opponent.

Smaller men like myself aren't completely helpless however. I've never actually lost a fight unless I was outnumbered. I attribute this to the complete lack of training on the part of everyone I've ever fought on the street. I discovered that very few people in the real world have any defense against a low side kick to the knee.

However, that doesn't belie your point. The larger man has the advantage, every time. Luckily, I live in Texas, and I'm rarely without my Spiderco Harpy (truly wicked knife) even in a bar, and most of the time I'm carrying a .45acp, because I don't believe in equality. I want superior firepower.

This latter part isn't directed towards you, but to others in the thread. I'm somewhat surprised to see the complete contempt that many hold for smaller men. The list of perjoratives I've read from "banty rooster" to "little Napolean" really say it all. Nary a mention of the now grown up school yard bully who still likes to throw his weight around.

79 posted on 01/27/2002 10:35:59 AM PST by Melas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
Princess Bride

You guys are cracking me up. That is one of my all-time favorites and I was happy when my kids grew old enough to watch it with me. There are so many great lines in that movie, but I liked it when Andre says, "I don't even work out!" The "prepare to die" line is a classic.

80 posted on 01/27/2002 10:42:45 AM PST by lsee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 161-162 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson