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Opinion: Hockey Dad Verdict Backwards
vanity | 1/27/02 | moodyskeptic

Posted on 01/27/2002 8:48:53 AM PST by moodyskeptic

I'm sorry, but someone has to voice it: the little guy had it coming. Sucker punching a man 110 pounds your better is unwise, and the little antagonist Micheal Costin was in the wrong in the heated exchange that claimed his life.

At first, I was going along with the dominant media, insisting that this Sports Rage is out of hand and that the killer was a bully who should get the electric chair. But, being a Freeper, I have learned to check my emotional response to "big stories" and get more information before I choose sides. I wanted to hate the Big Bully Thomas Junta, he was reportedly a huge man. Then I realized that he's about my size, I'm 6'1", 255. I'm no giant. And I've spent an adulthood targeted by stupid little hot headed roosters who like to pick fights they can't win. Any big guy will tell you: you learn to be the cooler head and attempt to walk away. Expect no sympathy in ANY altercation.Little guys with an agenda are everywhere, perhaps they were traumatized, they didn't get chosen for teams or were ignored by daddy, whatever.Genetics made us big, not weightlifting. We are what our ancestors were, fat or big or strong or smart or devious or small or kind or mean. There are few truly mean big guys.

It turns out that the little guy Costin was allowing high sticking and rough contact during stick practice, and when the Big Dumb Guy showed up to protest, Costen shot back that hockey is a tough game, get over it. Costin was in the wrong. He should've relented and shut up. But he was the hot head of the two and wouldn't drop it. In the dressing room, he sucker punched the bigger man and kicked at him with his skates as they continued arguing. This chicken spit tactic should've gotten him clobbered right then.True to Big Guy form, Junta went out to his truck to simmer down, only to return when he realized that his son was still in a locker room with a crazy father and his roughneck kids. Let's honestly add to that the humiliation of being sucker punched and walking away from it.

I don't know how many of you freepers have been in an inadvertant serious fight with guys who play dirty. Apparently very few. Surely the pixie woman prosecutor was in unfamiliar waters, judging by her questions. " So, this meant you had to resort to violence, Mr. Junta?" Huh? She ever experienced anything beyond her suburan car pool existance?

Wise fathers tell their boys: don't smart off to cops, don't hit women, don't pick fights you can't possibly win. Attacking a man 110 pounds bigger than you, when you are IN THE WRONG morally, is unwise. While I'm very sad that Costin died. Really. However, putting the Big Dumb father in jail for six to ten years send the message: Open Season on big guys, a jury packed with people who got overlooked when choosing sides for dodgeball will exact revenge on the Big Bully, and you can be as mean and smart alecky as you want at that next sporting event.


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To: LibWhacker
This verdict was a great injustice and the whole GD society is being thoroughly feminized.

What we have here is failure to communicate. The term for the change in society in which violence between citizens is forbidden is becoming civilized, not feminized.

101 posted on 01/27/2002 11:35:55 AM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: lsee
Bingo Thats the main point. He could have walked away but he did not. If there was no jury and a judge had decided his fate this point is what would have judged him. He had already left and there was no need for him to go back and beat the man till he died.
102 posted on 01/27/2002 11:42:34 AM PST by winodog
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To: moodyskeptic
and I realized how close I'd come to throwing my adult life away. . . People, it happens quickly, and you shouldn't criticize too easily unless you've lived it.

But if you knew that you could get away with it, if society didn't punish people like Junta, perhaps you would have killed the other person.

Then you would be as free as you are, but walking around knowing that you had taken a human life, instead of feeling sorry for Junta. Do you really think that situation would be preferable?

103 posted on 01/27/2002 11:45:00 AM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: eloy
I'm 6'3" and 240#. The only fight I ever lost was to a 5'8" 140# former Marine, but he didn't win for free. He took twenty+ stitches and several broken and cracked ribs and he's still my friend today.

Are you sure that this wasn't the plot in a John Wayne movie? Maybe one with Lee Marvin?

104 posted on 01/27/2002 11:47:03 AM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Melas
People on this thread aren't calling men of small statue names..they are just describing the attitudes ( especially the negative and anti-social ones)of only a few who judge themselves by their height...
105 posted on 01/27/2002 11:49:28 AM PST by Uglywhiteguy
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Comment #106 Removed by Moderator

To: moodyskeptic
No flames from me. You hit the nail on the head. Costin had a Napolean complex. I'm sure that served him well most of his life, but on this occasion it got him killed.

Additionaly, let's not make Junta out to be a knight in shining armor. After all the guy was arrested twice: once for beating his ex-wife and the other time for assaulting a police officer. They were both sleezebags.

107 posted on 01/27/2002 11:54:46 AM PST by oldvike
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To: wtc911
You'll excuse me if I choose to give the cops, the jury and the judge the benefit of the doubt over your well-considered, I'm sure, opinion.

Well, gee . . . I'll bet the OJ verdict made you feel almost as warm and fuzzy as this one did. Please excuse me if I cannot characterize your opinion in the same way you've characterized mine.

108 posted on 01/27/2002 12:00:26 PM PST by LibWhacker
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Do you really believe we're more civilized today than in the past? Only liberals believe that.
109 posted on 01/27/2002 12:03:53 PM PST by LibWhacker
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To: tbeatty; gostargo
Got off easy? I dunno. I'm 6'4", 345. When I used to fight, I was 245, trained martial artist, bouncer, things like that.

I think the punishment was too hard, he should have gotten 3 to 5 like the min was, suspended after 1 year. He did kill the guy! He did leave the building and come back in to fight, he should have left and stayed out. Also, for his size, he should have restrained the littler guy, not deck him. That showed he was an inexperienced fighter, just a brawler. When he went back in, is that when he was sucker punched? That still should have caused him to wrestle, not box or brawl.

At no time was this bigger guy's life in jeopardy, nor was his health gravely threatened, he only faced a black eye and maybe a busted lip, and neither of those are qualifier for death, accidental or otherwise.

110 posted on 01/27/2002 12:12:15 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: moodyskeptic
moody....

To have it otherwise, would be to say that the judge and jury were totally wrong. Although such things have been known to happen, I do not believe this jury was blinded by any bias or prejudice. They ruled that Junta did not kill in self defense and that at no time was he in danger of losing his own life. The state has a walkaway law, as do most states. Junta in returning the second time, and forcing his way inside, violated that law. By force he had his way and must pay the price.

111 posted on 01/27/2002 12:16:45 PM PST by cynicom
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To: moodyskeptic
Junta made four major mistakes that cost another man his life, and him his freedom. Here they are.

1. He had safely left the building and was outside under no threat of harm. He went back in seeking solely to fight again.
2. He was confronted by the rink manager, a woman. She tried to stop him and was bruised as a result of him knocking her aside.
3. He approached the victim swiftly with obvious intent to fight. This may be the reason the victim struck out first.
4. According to the coroner, Junta beat the man so badly that his head was in danger of being detached from the spinal cord. The coroner was also able to account for fifteen blows to the victim's head. The victim had a 7 inch hematoma on the side of his head. His artery was severed. His vertabra had been damaged. His head was fractured in the back. His brain was so badly swolen that it would likely have caused death on it's own.

These are not the acts of a man simply defending himself. Once he reentered the building and pushed the rink manager aside, it was all over. Anything he did from then on out was not self-defense.

He had walked away. He was outside. At that point he was safe and in the right. Too bad for everyone he didn't stay out there.

112 posted on 01/27/2002 12:16:59 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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Comment #113 Removed by Moderator

To: LibWhacker
Do you really believe we're more civilized today than in the past?

In western political theory I start with Hobbes, life in the state of nature, compared to civilized societies, was 'solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.' Things are better now than 20,000 years ago, and in some ways they have been better in eras since then.

114 posted on 01/27/2002 3:05:35 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: moodyskeptic
I agree. I have said they pegged him based on his size, when it takes one punch to the throat to dislodge the disc by your adams apple to kill you (had a friend in highschool almost die from it). The verdict was wrong. Too many witnesses said he hit him 3 times. Only ONE of those punches placed in the right place could have done it, and it could have been accidental, not a "beating to death". Now we have a society that will convict based on the size difference of people. Costin could have killed Junta just as easily with one punch. It happens he didn't. Very sad verdict indeed. Junta has been attacked twice now.
115 posted on 01/27/2002 3:11:57 PM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Melas
Kudos to your excellent post #78.

I'm on the upper end of middle-sized (5-10, 200), so I guess I'm not subject to either of the complexes you mention.

Speaking of Napoleon complexes, I had an employee once (maybe 5-3, 130) who would every Saturday night go to the local biker bar, get drunk and pick a fight. This was his idea of a great Saturday night, even though he lost most of the fights.

116 posted on 01/27/2002 3:15:54 PM PST by Restorer
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To: moodyskeptic
As I have said before, if Costin was that bad, the parents should have removed him a long time ago.
117 posted on 01/27/2002 3:18:46 PM PST by Great Dane
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To: moodyskeptic
I don't think Junta should have been convicted either.

The kids in the practice match who were getting knocked around outside the rules were who Junta was defending, not himself.

Yes, I'm a former Little League mom.

118 posted on 01/27/2002 3:25:22 PM PST by Salvation
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To: LIBERTARIAN JOE
As was the info on Junta, it seem he had restraining orders sworn out against him, and had assulted his wife, with the children watching......... let this be said, I saw this on main media..... enough said.
119 posted on 01/27/2002 3:34:00 PM PST by Great Dane
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
Junta is a wife beating bully who beat a man half his size to death over nothing. If a cop had done the same thing you and your fellow travelers would be tying the knot on the rope right now. You can't beat a man to death because he threw a punch at you, whether it connects or not.

As for your three punch comment, it was balogna from the beginning and I'm sure Junta convinced his kid to tell that lie being the piece of crap he is. Adrenaline is not an excuse it is a mitigating factor. When I fought I only remembered the beginning and end as the adrenaline wore off, what went on in the middle was filled in by others. The judge took that into consideration because if he had cold bloodedly beat Costin to death, Junta would have an appointment with the power company.

120 posted on 01/27/2002 3:37:00 PM PST by jwalsh07
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