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Pilot at fault used Profiling against SS Agent
CNN - Crossfire Transscript 1/4/2 ^ | 1/4/02 | Self

Posted on 01/04/2002 9:34:45 PM PST by ImphClinton

Edited on 04/29/2004 1:59:53 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Here's one from Karen who's from upstate, New York. Big territory. "Bill, I almost always agree with you, but you are really wrong on this one. The pilot did exactly the right thing. And anyone who believes a government ID cannot be forged is living in a fantasy."


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous
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To: ImphClinton
Its not up to AA, the pilot, you or me to disarm anybody. It is up to me who comes through my front door and it us up to AA and the pilot who gets to fly on their plane.

Belligerence + gun + improper paperwork = get butt off plane.

PS: The Egyptian fellow who flew his plane and passengers into the ocean had the proper uniform, the proper identification and the proper paperwork.

201 posted on 01/05/2002 5:35:37 AM PST by jwalsh07
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To: UberVernunft
Yea...and I've heard that you're a disrupter. Get the point?

Yes anything that doesnt agree with your rigid viewpoint on anything is a disruption. After all, how could anyone disagree with you since you are all knowing on every issue? God can retire. No need for an Omniscient God when we have UberVernunft in this world.

Have a nice delusion... sorry meant have a nice day.

202 posted on 01/05/2002 5:35:58 AM PST by Dave S
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
"I think I'm speaking for the rest of FR when I say, 'see if you can say something intelligent, in the next one.'"

Sounds like you're speaking for DU. Typical aussie leftist drivel.

203 posted on 01/05/2002 5:45:22 AM PST by Godebert
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To: Dave S
"Yea...and I've heard that you're a disrupter. Get the point?"

Yes anything that doesnt agree with your rigid viewpoint on anything is a disruption.

Wrong again -- as usual for you. The point being made was that someone claimed ImphClinton was a disrupter (not me), so I hear it and make a claim based on "hearing" it. What does that prove? Not much and that is the point. So when someone backs up a claim by stating they "heared" something it's really not credible support.

204 posted on 01/05/2002 5:45:38 AM PST by UberVernunft
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
"...I've probably posted 30 reponses on this issue over the last few days..."

Yeah, I saw 'em.

Try reading them...

I think I'm speaking for the rest of FR

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Based on the mindless content of your posts it's doubtful that you can even speak for yourself let alone FR.

If you disagree with my points then reply to them directly. Otherwise, you sound like a rambling bafoon who can't actually debate an issue.

We are all waiting for you to actually address the points made by the hundreds of Freepers who actually disagree with you.

We're still waiting...

205 posted on 01/05/2002 5:53:47 AM PST by UberVernunft
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To: AnalogReigns
Forget the paperwork...who fills out paper work exactly right anyway?


This is typical liberal thinking: rules and laws only count when it suits them.

If the Feds can't fill out their own paperwork then one of two things should happen. The feds should change the paperwork or fire the idiot who can't fill it out.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a pilot requiring high standards of Federal Agents carrying weapons. This SS agent should be fired! Plain and simple.

206 posted on 01/05/2002 5:55:20 AM PST by stig
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To: Dave S
After all, how could anyone disagree with you since you are all knowing on every issue?

Did I hurt your idty-bitty feelings?

207 posted on 01/05/2002 5:56:00 AM PST by UberVernunft
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To: stig
This SS agent should be fired! Plain and simple.

I totally agree.

208 posted on 01/05/2002 5:57:29 AM PST by UberVernunft
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To: ImphClinton
This Pilot needs to be fired.

There won't be an airline industry if pilots can't make calls like these. Who would you rather fly with...this pilot or the one that took off with Richard Reid on his plane?

The pilot was suspicious of an Arab-American carrying a loaded gun...duh!!!

209 posted on 01/05/2002 6:03:04 AM PST by grania
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To: EdZep
But, it doesn't take profiling to recognize an uncooperative person with a weapon, who doesn't want to follow procedure.

Lets see the Agent was uncooperative? He didnt present himself and his credentials to the pilot upon boarding? He didnt leave the plane when asked to do so while they checked his ID? He didnt present his badge and photo ID to the Captain each of the five times the pilot requested them, even though the pilot admitted to the SOC that he had no clue what Secret Service Photo ID should look like. He didnt fill out the same American Airlines form three times when requested to do so by the Pilot. He objected when AA flight attendent rummaged through his personal belongings while he was not on board. He didnt offer any suggestions to the pilot on how his identity could be established, no telephone number at the White House to call or name of his boss. WRONG. EACH OF THESE STATEMENTS IS WRONG. The pilots own statement indicates that he cooperated in each of these ways.

The Pilot on the other hand was the picture perfect representative of cooperation. He refused to call or have the police call the White House to speak to the agents boss to confirm his idenitity. Why? Because then he wouldnt have an excuse not to fly him to Texas. He kept inspecting the agents badge and ID when he admitted to the SOC at American that he had no clue what they were supposed to look like. He accepts his flight attendants word that the agent is acting suspicous by deplaning when he knew he had orderd the Agent to deplane. Also he says he became suspicious when the flight attendant informed him that the agent had an Arabic language book in his possession. Unfortunately the book was written in English and was found long after he had been ordered to deplane for his suspicious behavior.

The only point at which the agent became uncooperative was when after more than an hour of delay, the Pilot refused to check his identity, refused to allow him to board and wouldnt return his coat and other posssessions on board to him. In fact the Captain while standing directly in front of the agent would only address him through a third person. Yes the Pilot was a model of cooperation and the Agent was not. If you believe that I got some John Birch/Michael Rivero conspiracies to sell you.

Nor does it take much good sense to see what a crybaby the guy has become, and to recognize the possibility that the entire incident was contrived for a lawsuit and 15 minutes of fame. The agent should lose his job for unprofessional conduct

The "crybaby" accepted legal representation from CAIR because he wanted an apology and reinstatement of his right to fly on American Airlines. In fact the agent is fighting for his job. Without being able to fly American, he will have a difficult time doing his job.

210 posted on 01/05/2002 6:07:04 AM PST by Dave S
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Just by the way Cachelot, if this 'irresponsible' 'belligerent' etc etc agent was pulled off the plane, where's all the eyewitnesses, from amongst the passengers, who should have come forward by now, to tell their story?

I don't think anyone have said that this guy was running amuck among the passengers and waving his gun or something. You can be belligerent a fair way below the treshold of screaming or taking hostages, you know. But there were witnesses. One of them was a cop.

You seem to have an agenda, Byron.

211 posted on 01/05/2002 6:16:53 AM PST by Cachelot
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To: ImphClinton
Pilot at fault used Profiling against SS Agent

GOOD!

Americans don't want to "Travel With Arabs" (TWA).

It's proper that they "Don't Even Let Them Abord" (DELTA).

I have flown four times since 9/11, passing through ORD each time and have yet to see a profiler.

P.S. Loose libs sink planes.

212 posted on 01/05/2002 6:18:47 AM PST by ROCKLOBSTER
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To: goldstategop
"...the President was wrong."

What has the President said that is "wrong". All I have heard is that he said if the pilot was discriminating, he would be POed. I agree w/ the pres but as the story unfolds, it appears the pilot was acting properly. I doubt the pilot was tuned into calling his good buddy, the pres!

So far, I go with the pilot.

213 posted on 01/05/2002 6:20:57 AM PST by lawdude
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To: lawdude
This Cartoon seems to fit.

A DUCK ARE A DUCK

214 posted on 01/05/2002 6:23:18 AM PST by stlrocket
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To: ImphClinton
ImphClinton,

This is the second post I have seen from you today to take issue with this pilot. Your first said he should have "called the White House."

Airline pilots don't maigically dial the White House swtichboard and get a direct line to them for a problem dealing with passengers--no matter if they are agents or not. Moreover, it was the agent who abused his position by telling the airline "I have the power of the White House behind me" as if this hired gun was the President himself.

If this agent could not fill out a simple form correctly (3 times) then he I question his intelligenc and ability.

Lastly, you seem to have an agenda beyond the issue of the pilot attempting to protect the aircraft, passengers, crew members, and the general public. If it is racial, a personal problem with the captain, authority, or what--I am not sure.

My opinion is that you have a real lack of understanding of what the captain's responsibilities are concerning armed passengers who do not properly adhere to standards, the rules governing interference with a flight crew, and the security realities that were forced upon the airlines in lieu of the tragic events of September 11th.

215 posted on 01/05/2002 6:25:53 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: null and void
Even before 9/11 pilots did not have to allow LEOs to fly with their weapons. Quite often the stewardess would give it to the captain or have it put in checked baggage. Sounds to me that this agent picked up an attitude during the Clintoon years.
216 posted on 01/05/2002 6:26:07 AM PST by willyone
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To: Tennessee_Bob
In this situation, if it's not filled out exactly right, then there are problems. The agent has admitted to not properly filling out the paperwork for carrying a weapon; not once, but twice. He also admitted to losing his temper with the Captain because he was asked for his ID five separate times.

False you have American Airlines saying the Agent admitted that. The Agent, according to his lawyer does not admit to not filling out the form properly or to losing his temper.

The is tantamount to Bill Clinton's Press Secretary saying "Even Ken Starr agrees that the President didnt lie in his grandjury testimony." Would you buy that?

217 posted on 01/05/2002 6:26:43 AM PST by Dave S
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To: Cultural Jihad
No, President Bush was not wrong. He said he would be "madder then hell" if his USSS agent was blocked from flying because of racial profiling. The fact (or allegation) is that the agent was blocked from flying because of his abusive and unprofessional behavior, REGARDLESS of his ethnicity. 6 posted on 1/4/02 10:44 PM Pacific by Cultural Jihad

You are absolutely right. It looks like this SS agent was just looking for trouble ... early retirement ????

218 posted on 01/05/2002 6:27:31 AM PST by clamper1797
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To: null and void
What is your point? Executive Orders is a novel. Not a real story. It is based on an idealized view of the SS. I will re read the book just to make sure I am not blathering.
219 posted on 01/05/2002 6:29:04 AM PST by willyone
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To: McGavin999
This says it all. BTW, just how long would you hold up a couple hundred passengers while you made phone calls to check this guy out? After waiting for him to try THREE times to fill out the forms?

The captain knew he had a built in forty minute delay because of the need to move luggage from the other AA plane of his and complete boarding of all the passengers. In fact he spent 75 minutes "laboring over this issue" before he closed the door and took off. After the plane left, American Airlines finally made the call and determined in less than five minutes that the agent was who he said he was. The Captain had plenty of time. In fact he ordered photos of all known terrorists be faxed to him for his inspection. But he couldnt ask Directory ASsistance for the White House switchboard or look it up in the Yellow Pages.

220 posted on 01/05/2002 6:32:27 AM PST by Dave S
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