Posted on 12/11/2001 1:28:15 AM PST by lavaroise
December 6, 2001 File: 186
WHY IS THE CHRISTIAN WORLD SILENT ?
Why is the Christian world silent in the face of anti-Christian terror ? Alarm bells of Moslem anti-Christian conduct have been evident for years.
Many Muslim-ruled countries have dismal records when it comes to religious freedom and tolerance. Christians are particularly discriminated against. Why is the free world's reaction too often muffled ? Why are Christians silent ? Is it because we are afraid to step on the sensitive toes of "Big Oil" a.k.a "Arab Oil" ? Jews, once a majority in Medina, have long disappeared from Saudi Arabia as well as from most Arab countries. By Islamic laws . Jews were always second class citizens. After Five Arab nations attacked the newly established State of Israel, 800,000 Jews fled from their ancestral homes in 22 Arab lands abandoning everything they owned. Christians throughout the Moslem world are facing the same pressure: coercion, intimidation , constraints and extortion. By contrast, roughly 1.8 million to 2 million Muslims in the U.S. are free to construct mosques, set up their own nonprofit groups, evangelize for their own religion and raise funds here -- protected by the First mendment.
Here are some facts:
1. Christianity is banned in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Kuwait. Saudi Arabia has refused a U.S. appeal to release more than a dozen Christians accused of practicing their faith .
2. The U.S. State Department rates Afghanistan among the worst religious freedom violator -- along with Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Sudan, where leaving Islam for another religion is a capital offense.
3. "First the Saturday people [Jews], then the Sunday people [ Christians]." This Moslem strategy seeks to impose Islam not only on Jews [ Saturday people] but also on Christians. Moslem anti-Christian hatred has also come to the fore in Israel; The Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee heard expert testimony that "vandalism of Christian graves" in the PA-controlled areas has been on the rise of late. From one town of Beit Sahour (Bethlehem-area) fifty Christian families tried to emigrate in just one month. Christians have fled from Bethlehem, Nazareth and other cities out of fear, coercion and duress.
4. Turkmenistan -- Four Baptists were tortured for having religious literature in their car.
5. . Former U.S. Senator Connie Mack, upon returning from Israel, told the Senate, " I met one evening, privately - secretly - with Arabs who were being persecuted for the Christian faith... One man [who was arrested by the Palestinian Authority police] was beaten and hung from the ceiling by his hands for many hours on charges of selling land to Jews, [but] he was poor and had no land. [His son said he was] held hostage to prevent him from talking with people about his faith... It caused me to ask, 'How can the people of Israel find peace when the Palestinian Authority engages in coercion and torture based only upon religious beliefs?'"
6. Nigeria, Indonesia and Sudan lead the world in actual death tolls of Christians, according to the Center for Religious Freedom at Freedom House -- and the number of Christians and animists who have perished in Sudan is estimated at 2 million.
7. In January 2000, the Palestinian Authority forcefully took over the Russian Orthodox church in Jericho. In July 1997, PA para-military police burst into a monastery in Hebron, beat and dragged out the monks and nuns, injuring five monks and three nuns.
8. A Christian member of Congress Rep. Mike Pence (R-Indiana), testified that the desecration of Jewish history on the Temple Mount is "an outrageous example of an attempt by the Palestinian Authority to show no regard to the important claim that both Jewish and Christian history have on that site." "Millions of believing Christians and Jews across America cherish that site.... $125 million is being used (by the P.A.) to excavate the site without any regard to its unique history and without any regard to standard archaeological protocol"
9.. Maronite Catholic Church has accused Syria undermining Lebanon's existence. In a statement the Council of Maronite Bishops said Lebanon was fast losing its identity because of Syrian "tutelage." Fear and intimidation are but two of many reasons why Christians have fled from Lebanon, especially since Syria "annexed" Lebanon.
10. Moslem gunmen attacked a Christian Church in Southern Pakistan killing 15 Christians in a Pakistani church. Christians feared they could become targets if unrest broke out in Muslim Pakistan over opposition to the U.S. attacks on neighboring Afghanistan's ruling Muslim Taliban militia.
11. American courts recently granted asylum to Palestinian Christian Arabs, on the grounds that they would be persecuted for their religious beliefs if they return to PA-controlled territory.
Sources: Julia Duin, "Christians Face Dismal Plight in Islamic Realms," Washington Times, November 6, 2001; various Jerusalem Post and New York Times articles.
Sincerely, Ben Eliahou Manalapan, NJ 07726
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
As Zulu points out, a nation that leans to Christian virtues is a good thing but as a Christian, I have no interest in the establishment of a Christian theocracy in America and as far as I know, very few Christians would even entertain such an idea. Having this 'fear' of a theocracy brought up every time someone maentions that they would like to see all Americans convert to Christianity is tiresome as well as false.
Christianity is not about force or government. Christianity is a 'religion' (life choice, really) of love, peace and submission. Christians are admonished to submit to the authorities, as they are God-ordained. Yes, even Clinton. Christians can serve in government (as President Bush, AG Ashcroft and others do) but there is no scripture that in any way endorses a Christian theocracy, only a missionary zeal to spread the Good News of Christ and salvation through Him, not to establish a government. Christ's kingdom is not of this world, Satan has that realm as the actions of most governments demonstrate. Christians look for something far better while doing the best we can to spread the Word in this world and living a life that Christ would have us live.
A Christian Theocracy is not part of that and never will be, along with the fact that the majority of the people in American, although they might be religious in some manner, also would strongly reject such a notion, and we all know it.
Because the vast majority of Christianity has been hijacked by the heirs and disciples of Gramsci. As witnessed by mainstram religion's self-blaming, victimist and pacifist worldview. No cause - aside from leftist causes - worth fighting for. No corruption too extreme to excuse. No crime to horrible or grotesque for just retribution.
These so-called 'spiritual leaders' are traitors to humanity itself. As they deserve their shame, they also deserve their fate - right, Coyote?
I've seen you on other threads with your 'talibornagain'... accusing, digging, and generally making an idiot of yourself.
Instead of calling me names, why don't you ask what I meant by my statement. I will explain it to you.
Instead of twisting what I said to fit your assumptions, why not ask.
The answer may amaze you.
Or would you rather just continue merrily on your way making a fool of yourself...
In response to your condescending attitude toward persecuted Christians, you have an arrogant way of mishandling the Bible to make it say what you want it to.
You should be grateful that you are fortunate enough to live in a time and place where you can worship freely.
I am not going to get into a Bible debate, but Christ taught that being His disciple required forsaking everything including one's own life.
To deride those who must face the possibility of death or torture in order to become a Christian, makes your version (or perversion) of Christianity highly suspect.
As for martyrs, I challenge you to find me ONE PLACE, ONE, in the Bible, where it says after a martyrdom that people came to Christ. You can't find it.
But you know what you do find? EVERY TIME there were healings and people raised from the dead, people came to Christ. Seems to me if we are to grow the kingdom, more of the latter would be in operation and less of the former.
I choose live.
Yes, many had "deliverance" offered only for repudiation of the Gospel. That is ABSOLUTELY not clear in Hebrews. It is certainly not clear in Paul's case where the HS warned him directly not to go, twice, and He disobeyed.
Yes, Paul and Peter were in prison many times. We only have one recorded instance (as far as I know) where Peter "prayed" while in prison---now hang with me here---and on that occasion he was freed. What do you suppose he prayed about? Perhaps his release? It is important to separate the will of God from the will of man. God cannot act if you do not allow Him to act. This is true of salvation---no one can be saved against his will. It's just as true of earthly circumstances. Barring a "Biblical timeline" event that requires a person to be in such-and-such a place, God cannot force you "out" of prison if you aren't praying to be released. Now, why wouldn't Peter or Paul pray to be released? All sorts of reasons. Your mindset is one of them---perhaps they had the same (but that doesn't make it scriptural, because, after all, Peter betrayed Christ. They are not infallible nor were they fully filled with revelation, because all revelation hadn't been given yet). We don't know why they didn't ask to be released---all we know is that when Peter DID pray he was released.
Sorry, using Christ as a martyr won't work. You are not the Son of God, nor can you be a substitute for sin. That was the ONLY reason the Son of Man must "suffer and die." If any man could "suffer and die" and have something good come out of it, we wouldn't need Jesus. Try again. You can't find one.
You are playing right into my hands. Absolutely, all Christians will suffer "persecution." What is persecution? It CAN be torture and death . . . if you let it. So are all Christians who are not tortured "Christians?" They can't be by your definition. But there is another alternative: look at what happened to Jesus for the 3.5 years He walked the earth in ministry PRIOR to HIS ATONING DEATH. Until the last week of His life, He never once, not one time, was physically assaulted, beaten, tortured, or otherwise harmed. In fact, the LORD Himself on two occasions supernaturally ESCAPED violence by somehow walking right through crowds. (Likely He became invisible or the Holy Spirit concealed Him). In other words, except for the actual ATONING DEATH and prophetic torture that He went through---that you or I have not scriptural purpose in going through---Jesus was never once so much as touched. But He was "persecuted" for 3.5 years. How? He was verbally attacked, called names, harassed by the Pharisees. I am persecuted at my work all the time: mocked, ridiculed, called names. You equate persecution with a crown of thorns. No. It can be, but it can also be other things. All Christians at one time or another are persecuted. But all Christians are not tortued or die "for Christ." Most die of old age. That doesn't make them less Christian. It is you who essentially deride everyone who DOESN'T die a martyr's death.
Yes we should "afford them more respect," in the sense that their willingness to die is awesome. But that is different than saying they UNDERSTAND scripture or have good judgment. This is especially true since, if I am right that you cannot find one single example of someone born again after a martyrdom IN THE BIBLE (not "Foxes book of martyrs"), it means that they died early when they could have won "souls" to Christ. Now, the Bible says they get a special reward. Don't know how you can improve on eternal life, but I'm happy to have the soul-winners' crown and other crowns that are laid up.
Daniel is OT. You still don't have one single instance where you can point to one person whose life was converted. Not one. In fact, Stephen's martyrdom didn't affect Paul in the least, because he was on his way to KILL MORE CHRISTIANS after he killed Stephen.
IF "signs and wonders" were so bad, why did not only JESUS perform them---and bring people to Himself EVERY TIME He did---but ALL the apostles did. EVERY ONE. Pretty lame to try and use the "signs and wonders" here. Jesus criticized people because they could not see PAST the signs and wonders, but HE NEVER FAILED TO HEAL ONE SINGLE PERSON who came to Him, not one.
Try again.
You still have no example, by name, of any individual saved as a result of a martyrdom. Paul is not an example. He is the exact opposite. It took direct intervention by Jesus, which indicates a pretty hard heart, not a changed heart.
3) John did not die a martyr's death.
4) It's interesting that Jesus did not tell Peter he would have to die until PETER said he would die for Jesus. We do not know what confessions the others made, but, since they died martyrs' deaths, I assume they made similar confessions.
5) No we do not walk by miracles and signs. But signs are supposed to FOLLOW faith. Someone with faith and not signs is, would you say, suspect?
But you're right. There is no need for further discussion. Your quotations about spiritual blindness might best be directed inward.
Again, though, we have countless examples of people who were healed, or raised from the dead, followed by massive conversions.
Now, a normal person led by the Spirit might actually think about that for a minute.
In cases like this, I believe "enlightenment" could save some. But when were the true choices made? Let's back up: when could the Jews in Germany have saved themselves? There were opportunities---but they came at high financial costs. From 1934-1939, Jews could leave Germany if they left all but $10,000. People COULD have voted against Hitler---but they didn't. All this is choices. Millions of German Christians died who did NOT do their political duty in stopping Hitler. I'm not "blaming" anyone: I'm stating a fact that ultimately all of us have choices.
Back to my cancer example. By the time you find you have a tumor the size of a pear in your breast, it's too late. You have already made your choices. Now, some of those were uninformed choices or ignorant choices. But as they say, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." With the Word of God, we have promises. God said He would "make a way of escape." Note NOT THE DEVIL would make a "way of escape," and God's "way of escape" is never death. So we can only assume that God has a way for us to get out of nasty situations without compromising ourselves.
So, ignorance of the promises of the Word is no excuse. If the Bible says, "By His stripes ye are healed," and you don't KNOW that, you will never get healed. If the Word says God will make "a way of escape," and you don't know that, you are dead. That's why it is important we get good teaching and good doctrine. I thank God all the time that I live in a free country, and, more important, for my teachers and pastors who have taught me in the Word so that I can KEEP IT FREE.
I agree that conversions always came by preaching the Word and not specifically the miracles. That's why (can't cite the verse here, no time) I think Paul said to preach and THEN heal. I think you are confusing "miracles" (acts of God) with FAITH (acts of one's own faith). Most of the healings we are talking about that led to conversions were not miracles, but acts of the faith of the people who came based on (as you rightly say) the Word.
But you are getting a litte far from my point that martyrdom cannot be linked in any case to a conversion. My point is that if martyrdom was "the plan" for even MOST Christians, then every time there was a martyr mentioned in the Bible, we would have records of mass conversions based on that inspiration. We do not. Just the opposite. The Bible is deafening with this silence.
Now, I know this is tough---and please don't write me again unless you really want to discuss this without denominational blinders---but look at Stephen. Why was Stephen martyred? Go back to my premise that people make choices. When Stephen is introduced, he is in what we call the "helps" ministry. He is in the church, serving people food and ministering to their needs in the church. We have NO RECORD of him being called as an "evangelist"---which is a specific "office," as opposed to a "preacher" which we all are supposed to be. Yet the next time we see Stephen---with no other explanation---he is performing the duties of an evangelist. Did Stephen step outside his anointing? Did he go beyond what he was authorized or instructed to do? I believe so. I believe that he opened himself to that particular persecution---OUT OF A GOOD HEART AND A DESIRE TO SERVE GOD---but out of a somewhat rebellious but enthusiastic spirit. "That would never happen," you say. No? Look at the guy who was carrying the ark. The ark started to fall. Out of a good spirit and a desire to "help" God, he reached down (disobediently) and grabbed the ark . . . and died! Just being enthusiastic does not overcome being disobedient, and we all have to know what our disobedience level is.
Question: who is greater, Christ or Stephen? Did not Christ ask for mercy on His enemies? Who are His enemies? At the time, Paul. Why would you then claim Stephen's prayer was superior to that of the Lord's? It was JESUS plea, NOT STEPHEN'S which saved Paul. You still have no example of a "successful" martrydom.
If "forsaking your lives" meant that you died the minute you became a Christian, there would be no church today, can you agree? So obviously it doesn't mean that. Jesus said we would "suffer" like Him. We must rule out the cross, because you and I can never "suffer for mankind." It is impossible. How did Jesus suffer for 3.5 years? He was persecuted. As I say, I'm persecuted nearly daily.
"Forsaking your lives" means forsaking your life of sin and taking up your cross. But that cannot mean a physical cross---unless you are one of those people who walks across the country carrying a big wooden cross, in which case there is little hope. It means taking up your CHALLENGE in life---your CHRISTIAN challenge---and defeating it in Jesus' name. I don't know what your challenges are. I know what mine are. Paul said we must bring the body and mind under control at all time. That's a "cross." That's a daily challenge. If you do that, believe me, you have "forsaken you life." You quit thinking about you and start thinking about others.
As for the brothers and sisters in the Sudan, we should a) pray that they receive revelation that they don't have to sit and take it; b) bring to their attention the words of Romans that the government does not exist for the wicked. They ain't wicked, and they need to rise up and take back their government, by force if necessary. c) We should pray that those incapable of fighting or defending themselves SEE their "way of escape," and, in the natural, help make that way of escape.
I think our discussion is finished. You have much to think about. I rest easy in the Holy Spirit. Now, "Study to show yourself approved."
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