Posted on 10/23/2001 8:39:39 AM PDT by spycatcher
Pre-Islamic Arabia's religion was one of superstition. Belief in jinns (genies), curse casting, magic stones, totems was the norm - and it was against this background that Allah arose. Although the Quran is claimed to be a heavenly writing with no earthly source, evidence of these very sorts of cultural influence is found in such places as Suras 55, 72, 113 and 114.
Animism, the belief that spirits inhabit rocks, trees and other elements was also very commonplace. Some of these stones were venerated and used as a focal point for the worship of a particular tribal god. No surprise, Muhammad's family had just such a stone for their own tribe - a black stone, in fact, that they kept at the Kabah (where the tribal idols were set up). The pagan rites of bowing toward Mecca, making a pilgrimage to the Kabah, running around it seven times, kissing it, then running to the river to throw stones at the devil all found there way into Islamic practice.
The final piece of the puzzle was in found in the religion of the Sabeans, an astral religion that worshipped the moon god and planned their religious rites around the lunar calendar. One such rite was fasting from crescent moon to crescent moon, a practice which would also be adopted by Muhammad.
If these things were not present before Muhammad received them from Allah (who himself is the moon god of Muhammad's tribe), why did Muhammad not have to explain what those words meant in the Quran? How would people have known who Allah was? ( or: what a jinn was? what the Kabah was? what the word Islam meant? etc.). Even the word "Islam" which many believe to mean "submission" was not an original word. In Arabic it was a secular term that denoted the strength and bravery of a desert warrior (a definition that accurately reflects the war-like tribes that founded Islam with bloodshed).
The Moon God
"Allah" is from the compound Arabic word "al-ilah" or in english "the god". Allah was known before Muhammad's time without a doubt. His name has been found in pre-islamic writings and other archeological finds. At the Kabah in Mecca over 350 gods were worshipped, but it was built especially for the chief deity - the moon god. Allah was the personal title of the moon god. Allah was married to the sun goddess. They produced three daughters, whose worship Muhammad would later make the mistake of condoning. The crescent moon symbol of Arabia came from this god.
Muhammad's family revered this particular god, and it is this idol that Muhammad declared to be the only true god. So, Allah - far from being the revealed God of the Bible as Muhammad would have us believe - is nothing more than an amplified pagan idol. Muhammad did not re-make the pagan god, he simply removed the lower deities from the rites of worship. That is why he never had to explain who Allah was. By definition, an idol converted in the 7th century into a new god cannot be the sama God revealed thousands of years earlier to Biblical prophets!
If you rejected it, does that make you nothing more than contrarion?
Would you have been a contrarion if born in an Islamic country? (If so, it would not have been for long.)
Of course, if you were born in an Islamic country, you wouldn't have been you. You would have been someone else. Thus, at best the question is foolish.
At best.
Sorry, but I don't think you're being honest with yourself.
"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world...."
Who is deluded?
It is very clear (to all but the most delusional of observers) that the indoctrination of one's youth determines the likely faith of one's adult life. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions (nor did I suggest otherwise).
My point is that the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of those standing in defense of the "truth" of Christianity on this thread, being the same ones standing in defense of the "truth" of Islam had they been born elsewhere.
Why would anyone of sound mind seek to deny this?
If Islam claims to worship the God of Abraham, and Isaac... why did they keep the crescent moon as their "logo"?
Nevertheless, "Allah" is now simply the Arabic word for God.
Arabic speaking Christian converts say "Allah"; Maronite Rite (Lebanese) Catholics say "Allah"; Maltese (a language related to Arabic) speaking Christians say "Allah"; and Moghrabi (Moroccan, though now mostly in Israel) Jews say "Allah". In ordinary speech, anyway. Some may pray in other languages.
Those who would deny that the faith into which individuals are indoctrinated as youths, overwhelmingly determine the faith that they practice as adults.
That's who.
What was the 'indoctrination' of YOUR youth?
I actually see many adherents of Islam as cult victims. I don't hate them, I feel sorry for them and am trying to understand the hook and whip that keeps them in line. The violent ones though, as you say... "should keep in mind: what goes around comes around." These people are nothing but criminals and will face "Infinite Justice." Unfortunately most Muslims seem to be silent or supporting the demonic violence aginst the infidels. Of course to you that *isn't hateful* right?
Same reason the jews keep the Star of David around... ancestor's worhip of Ishtar.
Thanks for the hagiographical lesson.
The crescent moon is symbolic of the fact that it is the appearance of the crescent moon that marks the beginning of the Muslim month. If that means that the Muslims worship the moon because their calendar depends on it, do Christians worship the moon because the date for Easter depends on it (Easter falls on the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox).
How arrogant of you it is to claim that others could not rise above the accident of their birth to embrace a greater truth, when somehow you managed to rise above your childhood to indulge in a delusion.
Where did you get your monopoly on wisdom (so-called)?
Well, you just revealed your ignorance.
Scripture plainly shows that "God", as used in the Bible, is really a family name, the Hebrew word "Eloim", being a uni-plural word indicating "one, with many members."
... just as the family name "Smith" indicates one, with many members.
Scripture also plainly shows that the "God" family presently includes only two members... The Father, and the son, Christ.
Nowhere does the scripture indicate that God's Spirit is a separate being, any more than Satan's Spirit is a separate being.
The Biblical God... is a God of grace, vs Allah, only judgment.
1 Sam 2:10 The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.
Ps 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
2 Tim 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
1 Pet 4:5 ...Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
And along with judgement, comes destruction...
Deut 31:3 The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said.
Ps 28:5 Because they regard not the works of the LORD, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up.
Ps 145:20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.
Prov 15:25 The LORD will destroy the house of the proud: but he will establish the border of the widow.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Jer 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Ezek 6:3 And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places.
Ezek 25:7 Behold, therefore I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and will deliver thee for a spoil to the heathen; and I will cut thee off from the people, and I will cause thee to perish out of the countries: I will destroy thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.
Hag 2:21-22 Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth; And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother.
Zech 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Sounds like a lot of judgement and destruction to me!
Bleeding-heart "Christians" often miss the real meaning of "Grace." They use "grace" as an end-run around having to obey God.
However, scripture plainly shows that they will not get away with that attitude forever.
God is reserving those who reufse to obey Him for the day of judgement where they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Their end is the same as folks like Bin Laden.
God gives grace to those who humble themselves, repent of their wicked ways, accept forgiveness of their past sins made possible by Christ, and submit to God's rulership in their lives.
... but God also reveals Himself as a consuming fire of destruction to those who reject Him and His Law, and attempt to misuse the sacrifice of Christ as a license to disobey.
Contrary to what you alledge, God reveals Himself as a God of tremendous and destructive judgement to those who refuse to obey Him.
Check out some good intellectual debunking of false philosophies and religions HERE
So step away from the mirror already.
You might have been raised by religious parents and converted, but there are people who convert from atheism to Christianity. That's how it works in a country with religious liberty. If you had been born there, you would have been indoctrinated into Islam and exposed to nothing else. Granted: what people believe is largely determined by their parents' beliefs. Someone still has to be right. Christians are the ones.
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