Science Stunned by Virgin of Guadalupe´s Eyes

Zenit News Org ^ | January 14, 2001 | Zenith News Org

[topher]

Engineer Sees a Reflection, Literally, From a Scene in 1531

ROME, JAN. 14, 2001 (ZENIT.org) .- Digital technology is giving new leads in understanding a phenomenon that continues to puzzle science: the mysterious eyes of the image of Virgin of Guadalupe.

The image, imprinted on the tilma of a 16th-century peasant, led millions of indigenous Indians in Mexico to convert to the Catholic faith. Last week in Rome, results of research into the famed image were discussed by engineer José Aste Tonsmann of the Mexican Center of Guadalupan Studies during a conference at the Pontifical Athenaeum Regina Apostolorum.

For over 20 years, this graduate of environmental systems engineering of Cornell University has studied the image of the Virgin left on the rough maguey fiber fabric of Juan Diego’s tilma. What intrigued Tonsmann the most were the eyes of the Virgin.

Though the dimensions are microscopic, the iris and the pupils of the image’s eyes have imprinted on them a highly detailed picture of at least 13 people, Tonsmann said. The same people are present in both the left and right eyes, in different proportions, as would happen when human eyes reflect the objects before them.

Tonsmann says he believes the reflection transmitted by the eyes of the Virgin of Guadalupe is the scene on Dec. 9, 1531, during which Juan Diego showed his tilma, with the image, to Bishop Juan de Zumárraga and others present in the room.

In his research, Tonsmann used a digital process used by satellites and space probes in transmitting visual information.

He insists that the image "that has not been painted by human hand." As early as the 18th century, scientists showed that it was impossible to paint such an image in a fabric of that texture. The "ayate" fibers used by the Indians, in fact, deteriorated after 20 years. Yet, the image and the fabric it is imprinted on have lasted almost 470 years ago.

Tonsmann pointed out that Richard Kuhn, a Nobel Prize winner in chemistry, has found that the image did not have natural, animal or mineral colorings. Given that there were no synthetic colorings in 1531, the image is inexplicable.

In 1979, Americans Philip Callahan and Jody B. Smith studied the image with infrared rays and discovered to their surprise that there was no trace of paint and that the fabric had not been treated with any kind of technique.

"[How] it is possible to explain this image and its consistency in time without colors, on a fabric that has not been treated?" Tonsmann asked. "[How] is it possible that, despite the fact there is no paint, the colors maintain their luminosity and brilliance?"

Tonsmann, a Peruvian engineer, added, "Callahan and Smith showed how the image changes in color slightly according to the angle of viewing, a phenomenon that is known by the word iridescence, a technique that cannot be reproduced with human hands."

The scientist began his study in 1979. He magnified the iris of the Virgin’s eyes 2,500 times and, through mathematical and optical procedures, was able to identify all the people imprinted in the eyes.

The eyes reflect the witnesses of the Guadalupan miracle, the moment Juan Diego unfurled his tilma before the bishop, according to Tonsmann. In other words, the Virgin’s eyes have the reflection that would have been imprinted in the eyes of any person in her position.

In the eyes, Tonsmann believes, it is possible to discern a seated Indian, who is looking up to the heavens; the profile of a balding, elderly man with a white beard, much like the portrait of Bishop Zumárraga, painted by Miguel Cabrera, to depict the miracle; and a younger man, in all probability interpreter Juan González.

Also present, Tonsmann believes, is an Indian, likely Juan Diego, of striking features, with a beard and mustache, who unfolds his own tilma before the bishop; a woman of dark complexion, possibly a Negro slave who was in the bishop’s service; and a man with Spanish features who looks on pensively, stroking his beard with his hand.

In a word, the Virgin’s eyes bear a kind of instant picture of what occurred at the moment the image was unveiled in front of the bishop, Tonsmann says.

Moreover, in the center of the pupils, on a much more reduced scale, another scene can be perceived, independent of the first, the scientist contends. It is that of an Indian family made up of a woman, a man and several children. In the right eye, other people who are standing appear behind the woman.

Tonsmann ventured to express why he believes the Virgin’s eyes have a "hidden" message for modern times, when technology is able to discover it. "This could be the case of the picture of the family in the center of the Virgin’s eye," he says, "at a time when the family is under serious attack in our modern world."

ZE01011420

[RobbyS]

Relax, I'm on you side.

[Dqban22]

You are mistaken, Santiago, St. James, is the patron Saint of Spain.

[Wm Bach]

Bump for later. There were images posted here on FR on a thread about two months ago. I'll go a'looking.

[Arthur McGowan]

I actually read an article by a guy who wrote to the Scientific American, asking why they hadn't published anything on the Shroud of Turin. (This was back during the huge investigation of the Shroud in the late Seventies.) The editor wrote back to him: "It is the policy of the Scientific American that the Shroud of Turin does not exist."

[Arthur McGowan]

Note that the ANGEL has no cross on its brooch, while the Virgin does. I.e., being human, Mary was saved by the sacrifice of the Cross, while Angels, not being human, were not. It's little theological details that contribute to the credibility of an artifact like the Tilma.

The most horrifying thing I have heard is that the face was painted over some centuries ago, because Mary looked too Indian, was "too dark." It would be great if some restorers could be trusted with the job of removing the pale-face paint.

[conservonator]

Padre, padre, padre...You know since you posted this w/o the "sarcasm" tag you going to be flamed like you've never been flamed before. And I include the never-ending thread flames :-)

[ThomasMore]

And I include the never-ending thread flames

Oh Please!!! Not the Never-Ending threads!!! Any other torture but that!!!

[_Jim]

More evidence for ending the War on Hemp/Marijuana!!!!

Oh please!

Become informed on a topic before you spout off and mis-inform everyone! A large part of the longevity of ANY product (paper or hemp) are the chemicals used in processing and the residual compounds left IN the product!

Additionaly, here is a recent work that investigated industrial hemp growing and processing in Minnesota that advocates *caution* before rushing headlong into 'massive hemp farming' -

http://www.cnr.umn.edu/WPS/publications/hemp.pdf

Industrial Hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) as a
Papermaking Raw Material in Minnesota:
Technical, Economic, and Environmental Considerations

by Jim L. Bowyer

Published May 2001

Abstract

One potential source of industrial fiber is agricultural crops, either in the form of residues of food crops or plants grown specifically for fiber. One species that has generated interest as a fiber source is industrial hemp (Cannabis sativa L.). This report focuses on the potential use of industrial hemp as a source of paper making raw material in Minnesota. Environmental implications of commercial scale hemp production are also examined.

...

Summary

Despite promising attributes of industrial hemp, several factors suggest that development of an industrial hemp-based paper industry in Minnesota should not be pursued without very careful consideration.

Factors dictating caution include:

• Hemp growth rates are markedly lower than kenaf, another agricultural fiber currently being promoted as a papermaking raw material. The relatively slow growth rates of hemp could place Minnesota farmers at a considerable disadvantage to those several hundred miles to the south who could raise fiber crops of kenaf.
• Hemp crops are highly sensitive to early and late season frosts, a reality that could prevent reliable production of seed that is needed to make hemp production economically attractive to farmers.
• Although industrial hemp is not likely to be an economically viable source of marijuana, separation of industrial hemp from hemp grown as a narcotic is extremely difficult.
• Separation of bark and core portions of hemp stalks are thought by many to be necessary for optimum processing of hemp. However, retting, an integral part of the bark/core separation process, is reported to require substantial improvement prior to large-scale use of industrial hemp as a fiber source.
• Long-term storage of large volumes of hemp would be needed following harvest were hemp to become a principal papermaking fiber.
• In comparison to industrial fiber productivity in tree plantations, production of hemp fiber would likely result in significantly greater environmental impacts, even if it is assumed that annual hemp yields per acre would be as much as 70 percent greater than yields from poplar plantations.

[RobbyS]

The Scientific American is like the "Brady" character in "Inherit the Wind":"I do not think about things I... I do not think about."

[That Poppins Woman]

Hey -- I found the passage that gave you such gas ...

Although industrial hemp is not likely to be an economically viable source of marijuana, separation of industrial hemp from hemp grown as a narcotic is extremely difficult.

Bet you and your little BATF buds are sweatin' bullets ... a long-term REAL war will bankrupt your little dinky war on consensual drugs ... and all you bums will have to find real jobs!

[AmericanCheeseFood]

Science stunned by idol !

Cheese .

[d4now]

Well, Arthur, please accept my public apology then. I shall have to look at the previous posts of yours that I found ignorant and/or idiotic to see if irony was lost on me there as well.

[Storm Orphan]

Oh God, he's taking us seriously.

[God_isa_Jew]

"It is said that 90 per cent of all people in Mexico are Catholic, but that 100 per cent believe in the Virgin of Guadalupe."

How many mexicans believe that 'the Virgin of Guadalupe' is/was a demonic manifestation? Certainly there are plenty of Pentecostal, and non-Pentecostal, Bible-believing, followers of the Nazarene Carpentar who do.

[God_isa_Jew]

"You know, I wish I didn't have to se FR crapped up by this idol worshiping dung"

.........get used to it.

This is the time of the rise of the anti-christ and 'the false prophet', the vatican has big plans for King Juan Carlos of Spain, (he has already been named 'King of Jerusalem' by 'the great whore of Revelations')

[Salvation]

American Catholic’s Saint of the Day

December 12, 2006

Our Lady of Guadalupe

The feast in honor of Our Lady of Guadalupe goes back to the sixteenth century. Chronicles of that period tell us the story.

A poor Indian named Cuauhtlatohuac was baptized and given the name Juan Diego. He was a 57-year-old widower and lived in a small village near Mexico City. On Saturday morning, December 9, 1531, he was on his way to a nearby barrio to attend Mass in honor of Our Lady.

He was walking by a hill called Tepeyac when he heard beautiful music like the warbling of birds. A radiant cloud appeared and within it a young Native American maiden dressed like an Aztec princess. The lady spoke to him in his own language and sent him to the bishop of Mexico, a Franciscan named Juan de Zumarraga. The bishop was to build a chapel in the place where the lady appeared.

Eventually the bishop told Juan Diego to have the lady give him a sign. About this same time Juan Diego’s uncle became seriously ill. This led poor Diego to try to avoid the lady. The lady found Diego, nevertheless, assured him that his uncle would recover and provided roses for Juan to carry to the bishop in his cape or tilma.

When Juan Diego opened his tilma in the bishop’s presence, the roses fell to the ground and the bishop sank to his knees. On Juan Diego’s tilma appeared an image of Mary as she had appeared at the hill of Tepeyac. It was December 12, 1531.

Comment:

Mary's appearance to Juan Diego as one of his people is a powerful reminder that Mary and the God who sent her accept all peoples. In the context of the sometimes rude and cruel treatment of the Indians by the Spaniards, the apparition was a rebuke to the Spaniards and an event of vast significance for Native Americans. While a number of them had converted before this incident, they now came in droves. According to a contemporary chronicler, nine million Indians became Catholic in a very short time. In these days when we hear so much about God's preferential option for the poor, Our Lady of Guadalupe cries out to us that God's love for and identification with the poor is an age-old truth that stems from the Gospel itself.

Quote:

Mary to Juan Diego: “My dearest son, I am the eternal Virgin Mary, Mother of the true God, Author of Life, Creator of all and Lord of the Heavens and of the Earth...and it is my desire that a church be built here in this place for me, where, as your most merciful Mother and that of all your people, I may show my loving clemency and the compassion that I bear to the Indians, and to those who love and seek me...” (from an ancient chronicle).

[Stone Mountain]

You're a nutcase. I have reams of files and notes to prove it.

This may be the single best example of projection I have ever seen on Free Republic! LOL!

[Tokra]

This is the time of the rise of the anti-christ and 'the false prophet', the vatican has big plans for King Juan Carlos of Spain, (he has already been named 'King of Jerusalem' by 'the great whore of Revelations')

I assume you've ordered your special edition Christmas Foil Hat to keep out the secret messages being beamed from the The Great Whore of Babylon - the Vatican.

Just where is your proof of the "big plans" that the Vatican has for the King of Spain?

(p.s. - is your real name Lyndon LaRouche?)

[mc5cents]

You know, I wish I didn't have to se FR crapped up by this idol worshiping dung.

Breathe in, breathe out, move on.