The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[Elsie]

I have little no use for Paul.

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It's STILL hell being the messenger!

[trad_anglican]

Oh....... they're gone?

No, they won't go away despite Charles Schultz's death. That was my point. Peanuts ceased to be funny years ago and they won't go away, but C&H which was always funny, is gone.

[Elsie]

Vandal paints swastika on synagogue door

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(We just get egged and paint-balled at our church!)

[RnMomof7]

Sorry Ang..these are difficult days

I will pray that they get caught

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

angelo I think I'm begining to see what you mean in your posts, but I now have doubt about the whole Bible, maybe it is all just a fable, you may have converted me too far.

BigMack

[JHavard]

Thanks for your kind and true words. I hope you will take the time to write just about the same thing to the RCbishop in the diocese in which you live. I think if all bishops would hear from people who are disturbed or disgusted with what has been occurring Christianity would be well served. Many of them think that this liberal,progressive,worldly approach raises the respect and esteem in which they are held. I bet they would be shaken to hear the truth. In my opinion there is nothing more devastating to a "progressive" then being held in contempt and viewed as pathetic.

Thank you for the suggestion Sara, and I have done just that.

Here is a copy of my letter which will go out tomorrow, to 2 Perish's here in my part of Florida, and one of which my wife used to attend.

Name of Parish
Address
3/5/02

Pastors XXXXXXX, XXXXXXXX, and Pastorial Assistants.

We are not Catholic, but we can understand what you must be going through over the problems dealing with homosexuality in your clergy, and the concerned looks you must see from faithful followers.

Remember, God has allowed you to shepherd his sheep until his return, and if the sheep view their shepherd as the predator, then where do they go for protection from the wolves?

I want you to know that we support you in whatever action you feel must be taken, to rid your Church of this cancer and make it safe for the flock once more. No doubt your superiors need to hear from you also, that you support them in taking any decisive action they deem necessary to stop this travesty that is going to undermine all you have worked to build.

If the Catholic Church makes the changes, I’ll promise you now, that any criticism I hear from anyone, who will say you have failed because you didn’t act sooner in correcting this problem, I will remind them that it took much more faith to handle the problem than it would have to simply let it take it’s natural course and eventually become known as the Church for sexual deviates

We’ll support the corrective actions you take, but will not support, ”no action.” Perhaps you should ask your people how they feel, and see how much support you have from them to make the necessary changes now, before even more make the headlines

Sincerely in Christ

Mr and Mrs JHavard

If any care to use this letter, feel free to do so. JH

[Uri’el-2012]

To which calendar do you think the 1000 years applies?

31608 posted on 3/4/02 11:57 AM Mountain by trad_anglican

G-d's calendar of 6000 years as of now.

Tehillim 122:6
Pray for shalom in Yerushalayim; may those who love you prosper.

chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

[RobbyS]

Sorry, but I think that the Apostles did not learn about Jesus from Scripture but from him. None of his followers was quite prepared for the Resurrection. That does not mean that the signs were not there, but that they were blind to their meaning.

[Elsie]

Classic! I wish I could remember the dad's answer to Calvin's question about where the sun goes at night.

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How's this???

C:"Why does the sun set?"

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D:"It's because hot air rises. The sun's hot in the middle of the day, so it rises high in the sky."

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D:"In the evening then, it cools down and sets."

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C:"Why does it go from east to west?"
D:"Solar wind."
M:"DEAR!"

[Elsie]

but that they were blind to their meaning.

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You're right, of course.

Even the Apostle Paul, man of great learning that he was.........

NIV Philippians 3:3-9
 3.  For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--
 4.  though I myself have reasons for such confidence.   If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:
 5.  circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;
 6.  as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.
 7.  But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
 8.  What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ
 9.  and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.

 

 

 

NIV 2 Corinthians 11:22-26
 22.  Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham's descendants? So am I.
 23.  Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again.
 24.  Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.
 25.  Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea,
 26.  I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers.

 

NIV Acts 23:1-9

 

 1.  Paul looked straight at the Sanhedrin and said, "My brothers, I have fulfilled my duty to God in all good conscience to this day."
 2.  At this the high priest Ananias ordered those standing near Paul to strike him on the mouth.
 3.  Then Paul said to him, "God will strike you, you whitewashed wall! You sit there to judge me according to the law, yet you yourself violate the law by commanding that I be struck!"
 4.  Those who were standing near Paul said, "You dare to insult God's high priest?"
 5.  Paul replied, "Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: `Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.' "
6.  Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead." 

 7.  When he said this, a dispute broke out between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was divided.
 8.  (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)
 9.  There was a great uproar, and some of the teachers of the law who were Pharisees stood up and argued vigorously. "We find nothing wrong with this man," they said. "What if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?"

 

 

NIV Acts 26:2-6
 2.  "King Agrippa, I consider myself fortunate to stand before you today as I make my defense against all the accusations of the Jews,
 3.  and especially so because you are well acquainted with all the Jewish customs and controversies. Therefore, I beg you to listen to me patiently.
 4.  "The Jews all know the way I have lived ever since I was a child, from the beginning of my life in my own country, and also in Jerusalem.
 5.  They have known me for a long time and can testify, if they are willing, that according to the strictest sect of our religion, I lived as a Pharisee.
 6.  And now it is because of my hope in what God has promised our fathers that I am on trial today.

 

...had to 'see the light' as well.

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(It's that veil thing again.......)

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

Do you feel, as I do, that the need for a mediator has passed? We, as do our brothers, have a direct link to the Lord?

I believe in a direct link with the Father so in that respect, YES.

But faith in Christ opens the door so "mediation" is still aplicable, just not the way it is commonly thought of.
My definition of mediator is not a person you pray to who prays FOR you, but His death and resurrection allowed our direct access when we believed. Therefore His action (which was done once) became our mediation between us and the Father.

I do not know what you think about the "preterist" stuff I am sure you have come across, but it is key. (Too many futurists have New Covenant beliefs which can only be true if Christ has already returned. So they are very contradicting in their beliefs).
I believe that the "past" view has cleared issues like this one up for me. I used to be confused about who to address my prayers to.

No More!

[Elsie]

Priest's Rights?

[gideon warrior]

Close but no cigars. The Rock spoken of by Christ is that truth uttered by Peter concerning Christ.."Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God"; The keys to the kingdom are the doctrines to be rendered from the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which Christ taught and the Church is not a building or an institution, it is the Body of Christ...The called out believers who are preserved until that great day of the Lord!

[Uri’el-2012]

Elsie;angelo;Invincibly Ignorant

LC>14. Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

a>Elsie, this prophecy was fulfilled 700 years B.C.E. The word mistranslated here as "virgin" is almah, the Hebrew word that means "young woman". The Hebrew word for "virgin" is betulah. Almost every new edition Christian bible translates this correctly. BTW, when was Jesus ever called "Immanuel"?
31728 posted on 3/4/02 3:13 PM Mountain by angelo

Why is parqe,noj GSN-3933 used in Is 7:14 ; Is9:6 Is 8:10 and Mat 1:23.

Angelo : The Greek word parthenos(GSN-3933) is used in the (LXX) Septuagint in Is7:14; Is9:6 & Is8:10
and in the Greek New Testament Mat 1:23

There are a total of 23 uses of parthenos in the LXX and the GNT combined.
I'll list all the citations if you wish.

OBTW: II>

The name of Jesus is Emmanouh,l( GSN-1694 or "G-d is with us"

Matthew 1:23 ivdou. h` parqe,noj evn gastri. e[xei kai. te,xetai ui`o,n( kai. kale,sousin to. o;noma auvtou/ VEmmanouh,l( o[ evstin meqermhneuo,menon meqV h`mw/n o` qeo,jÅ

chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

14. Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Fulfilled 700 years BC?
And where is your record of fulfillment?

I have my record:

Matt 1:21 she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." 22 All this took place to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23 "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel" (which means, God with us).

Where again, is your record of fulfillment before this one?

[Iowegian]

Are you among yet another group that uses hyperliteraliness?

Nope, just common sense. When I take 2000/1000 I get 2, you apparently get one. That's 2 millenia unless you are stupid. I'll leave that up to any reader to decide if you can do interpretation of Scripture any better than math. Next.

[OLD REGGIE]

I'm afraid I disagree that Papal primacy is clear in the first version of St. Cyprian's writing, and with your assumption that he didn't write both.

I am not aware I made any assumption except that there were two different views depending on the source.

Perhaps you confused my cut and paste from a Catholic Apologetic source as my assumption.

"[There are two editions of what follows, the second of which tones down the first in view of Cyprian's argument with the papacy. Papal primacy is clear in the first edition written about 251 A.D., but merely implicit in the second effort written about 255 or 256 A.D.]"

My primary purpose for posting that particular quote was because I thought it a pretty weak argument by the Apologist.

I am not learned enough on the subject to take a strong position; however, based on reading a few articles by Catholic Apologists, I lean toward the position that Cyprian believed in the equality of all Apostles/Bishops. (The two links I posted give a fair picture of "both" arguments.)
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Note to AC:

When you do research on any controversial Religious subject it is critical to use more than one source. I noted, using Google as a search tool, that the articles by Catholic Apologists were, by far, predominant. It was necessary for me to modify the search several times before I got beyond this "monopoly" of articles.
Reggie

[OLD REGGIE]

Critics who say the system assumes the accused are guilty point to the case of the Rev. D. George Spagnolia. After he criticized church officials and priests over the sexual abuse scandal, he was accused recently of molesting a boy 31 years ago.

Unfortunately, Reverend Spagnolia has lost a lot of credibility after it was shown, and admitted by him, that he lived in two gay relationships for several years. The fact that he lied about his homosexuality will not be a help when he says "believe me". (The latest news is that he has ridden off into the sunset to "find" himself).

[malakhi]

Hey I can answer that. Apparently Matthew mistranslated it too.

Yes, Matthew did mistranslate it. Actually, he based his quote on the Greek translation of the Hebrew, which introduced an ambiguity which is not present in the original. "Virgin" is incorrect. Check just about any new bible today, and you will see it properly rendered as "young woman" or some variation of this.

BTW, Matthew also says "and they shall call his name Emmanuel". Please point me to the passage in scripture where this 'prophecy' is fulfilled, and Jesus IS ACTUALLY CALLED "Emmanuel".

[malakhi]

The greek translators must have agreed with the word "virgin".

The Septuagint is wrong in this passage.

Steven, do you think that scripture being inspired means that every translation of scripture is likewise inspired?