Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Mack wants me to leave this subject alone but I can't yet. I wanna know why if, I'm ok with calling Mary the mother of God, and I believe Jesus is the Word that was with God before the foundation of the world, that I have to believe Mary was sinless. Ok now Mack I'm gonna read your big long post.
I (admittedly as a Proddie) see these as inseparable for y'all.
Ok I read it. I just don't think, whether or not a person is pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib matters much. I'm a pan-trib. It'll all pan out in the end. The subject don't excite me much anymore. :-)
They were a good "what if" but after that they stunk, no real Gospel in there, more about selling books than anything else.
BigMack
It probably won't shock you to find out that I see them as very separable indeed.
Yes, and I'm really sure that he said:
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Elijah was a man and he did ascend. But if he ascended to the same heaven Jesus came from, then is Jesus delusional?
How would you explain that fact that Jeroham got a letter from Elijah years after he had been taken away to heaven?
Poor mail delivery? He crossed over with Johnathan Edward? Are messages from Heaven unheard of?
No, but certainly ones written on paper are.
Sorry, I don't know what your point is. The events described in Luke happened before the letter to the Ephesians was written.
Besides, I can admit to an equivalence between the words.
SD
Excellent find. Keep this "ex cathedra" faux paus handy.Ex cathedra (literally, from the chair) refers to the manner in which the bishop of Rome (a.k.a. the pope) presents certain dogmatic or moral teachings, not the manner of a council's teachings.
Here's my answer: He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. And His Kingdom will have no end.
SD
Ok, I said if ya don't like it you can shove it up your...... uh wait...no, I said bring one of your own up and well will run it up the flag pole and see if anybody salutes it. If it be Mary, so be it. :)
BigMack
The catholic church denies that Mary had a sin nature or that she ever committed wrong doing. Following are quotes from Catholic Publications:
The Immaculate Conception-or the fact that Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin-is a doctrine of the faith contained implicitly in Holy Scripture. The Holy Ghost did not express it in so many words; but he deposited it in the bibllical statements from which, like a seed, it grew up in the living Church of Christ until it reached its full size demension. Could the mother of the Saviour, shairng in her Son's victory, be, even for a moment , under the power of Satan? She had to be free from original sin. Finall, in 1854 Pope pius IX declared it a revealed doctrine- one of theose that have to be believed by all who share the faith of the church.
The Immaculate Virgin was preserved free from all stain of original sin" (Vatican II documents, "Dogmatic Constitution of the Church").
See it was revealed later and you have to believe it:)
Could someone explain the "sharing in her Son's victory," part for me.
Becky
Very good article, and it certainly fits with our understanding of the church, and with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Thank you.
Another thought that may be of intrest,
If God wanted to punish the US for promoting her sins around the world, and for expelling Him from our educational system, what would God have to do to get our attention?
What could He do that we would actually consider it as a warning from God, and not just another disaster that a little gung ho speech to rally us together, and a lot of money wouldn't satisfy everyone that it isn't God doing it, but it's always someone or something else causing the problem?
What would it take, and how do we know it isn't already happening?
JH
I would say because Peter ended up in Rome and was martyred there. And let us not be blind to the fact that the Imperial capital had something to do with it as well. It was the natural place for a worldwide institution to be headquartered.
SD
Don't get me wrong. I'm excited to see the Lord. Whether that means I'm translated thru death or if I'm still alive I'm excited.
Are you afraid to go were no catholic has gone before. :)
BigMack
I don't think it's viable. 2 Thessolonians 2 was quoted as support, but 2 Thessolonians 1 makes it clear that the event is:
2Th 1:6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay tribulation to those who trouble you,
2Th 1:7 and to give rest with us to you who are troubled, at the revealing of the Lord Jesus from Heaven with the angels of His power,
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ,
This seems to be the coming of the Lord, not a secret rapture for his church. His church will be instantly translated at the second coming, as made clear by Paul:
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
Which meshes nicely with John:
Rev 1:7 Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierced Him will see Him, and all the kindreds of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Ditto for Pittsburgh. Two of our linebackers are unrestricted free agents, but we should be able to keep at least one of them. And the rest of the team stays intact. I'm more worried that our coaching staff will get pilfered. Both our O coordinator and the QB coach have been interviewing. As soon as you get something that works, people start to rip it apart.
SD
Yup that's pretty wierd. Mary had parents who were born in sin. Dunno how they get around that.
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