Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: SoothingDave
Yeah sure. Agreement can be nice. Soon I'll mess it up by asking JHavard if he thinks Jesus is God or not. I already know your answer and it is also unequivocable. ;-)

Rather than chance seeing the threads close down, I'll bite. I have no firm conviction on this subject other then it seems that Christ had to be completely human, and have the same trials and temptations as we do, and if he had some advantage that we don't have, Satan could throw that up as an unfair advantage.

Remember what he told God concerning Job?

Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

Remember, this God that Satan was talking to in Job is the same God that Satan had to deal with after the resurrection.

Mt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

I believe that Satan knew that Jesus was the Son of God, and now he knew that he was more then just a good Jew, but he also knew that he was now in a totally human state.

Mt 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

This was the same Spirit that we are given, except Christ used it to the max, and it serves as an example of our potential, except I believe Jesus had a very real sense of his mission, where we tend to loose site of ours.

When God determined that to save mankind he would have to literally become one of us, he knew that Satan would say, "sure you can overcome temptation if you have an unfair advantage, but take away your full God ship and be as them, and we'll see how good you do in the same circumstances.

He did, and he beat Satan using his own rule book, and this is what I like to think of as my Savior, a God who won the game using the same tools he gave me to use, no more, no less.

5 posted on 10/09/2001 1:43:30 PM PDT by JHavard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies ]


To: JHavard
I have no firm conviction on this subject other then it seems that Christ had to be completely human, and have the same trials and temptations as we do, and if he had some advantage that we don't have, Satan could throw that up as an unfair advantage.

You are absolutely correct that Jesus needed to be fully human in order for the task to be fair. He needed to feel and breathe just like us. He needed to be tempted and not be able to just pull out the "God card," if you will.

Mt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

As a side note, I saw a good movie the other day called "Bless the Child," about a 6 year old girl who was apparently a "special" child who could do great good, or great evil if turned. Of course the devil character had to tempt the child to get her to serve the Evil Master. They replayed this scene, with the top of a tall city building standing in for the cliff used in scripture.

The Devil character tmpted the child to jump, saying that God promised the angels would protect her. He knew that Satan would protect him, cause satan really existed. Did she believe Her God really existed? If so, she should jump.

The little girl responded "You first"

Anyway,

I believe that Satan knew that Jesus was the Son of God, and now he knew that he was more then just a good Jew, but he also knew that he was now in a totally human state.

He was in a human body and capable of experiencing death.

Mt 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

This was the same Spirit that we are given, except Christ used it to the max, and it serves as an example of our potential, except I believe Jesus had a very real sense of his mission, where we tend to loose site of ours.

He did, and he beat Satan using his own rule book, and this is what I like to think of as my Savior, a God who won the game using the same tools he gave me to use, no more, no less.

Your thinking reminds me of Havoc's. In that you can make no distinction between your inhabitation of the Holy Spirit and the nature of the Incarnated Christ. It is true that God needed to humble Himself to become man, to struggle with what we struggle with, to truly overcome the human condition. And to do it without "cheating." You amply demonstrate that you understand that Jesus had to be truly human.

This is, to my people anyway, half of the story. Jesus also needed to be truly God. The obedience of one man, even unto death, is not sufficient to wipe out the infinite release of sin into the world. God (the infinite) needs to sacrifice Himself (the infinite) in order to right the scales. Infinite injustice requires infinite repayment. If Jesus is just a man, there is no infinite well of salvation, no limitless application of the sacrifice, no everlasting supply of the blood. Jesus must be God, be infinite in order to fully repay the debt.

What we are left with is a person who is fully human and fully divine. We can't necessarily explain it all, but it must be.

SD

7 posted on 10/09/2001 2:14:14 PM PDT by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: JHavard
I believe that Satan knew that Jesus was the Son of God

One more observation. If you believe Jesus was the "Son of God," you need to ask yourself when the "son" of something assumes a different fundamental character (or essence) from that which is the father. Dogs sire more dogs. Horses sire horses. Cats sire cats.

If Jesus is the "Son of God" He must be God. (Begotten, not made. Consubstantial (of the same substance) with the Father) If Jesus is the "Son of Man" He must be man.

Which is it then? Is Jesus God or Man? The answer is 100 per cent both.

SD

9 posted on 10/09/2001 2:24:59 PM PDT by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: JHavard, angelo
angeloI have presumed that Christians believe that Jesus was God. In light of some of the answers you've gotten to this question, I guess I'll have to revisit my thinking on this subject.

Oh cool, now we can have a Monophysite/Arian/Dyophysite discussion!

JHavardWhen God determined that to save mankind he would have to literally become one of us, he knew that Satan would say, "sure you can overcome temptation if you have an unfair advantage, but take away your full God ship and be as them, and we'll see how good you do in the same circumstances.

He could be tempted yes, but being God he was never in danger of sinning. God, of course, cannot sin.

17 posted on 10/09/2001 5:56:15 PM PDT by Pelayo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: JHavard
What would you bet that if he simply made a logical decision as to what Church he would go to, it would be Catholic.

He admires the pope, especially their stand on abortion and their no bend policies. I have heard him on this subject many times.


------------------------------------------------------------

That's funny, I also admire the Pope, I especially admire his stand on abortion and the death penalty. I also admire many of the "no-bend" policies of the RCC.

Having said that, the last Church I would go to is the RCC.
109 posted on 10/10/2001 8:17:12 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson