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How many preaching pacifism would accept life as a conquered people?
Union Leader ^ | Oct 04, 2001 | Michael Kelly

Posted on 10/04/2001 2:03:10 AM PDT by 2Trievers

LAST WEEK, I argued that those Americans who preached pacifism in response to the attacks of Sept. 11 were (borrowing from George Orwell) objectively pro-terrorist, objectively in favor of letting the masters of this attack escape to live and to commit more mass murders of Americans.

This upset some people. One Pennsylvania man issued what in pacifist circles must constitute a violent threat: “You may expect a series of letters from me and other folks in this regard, until such time as you deem it appropriate to issue a complete retraction of, and unqualified apology for, your comments.” Please, not the dread Series of Letters.

Let me see if I may cause further upset. Two propositions: The first is that much of what is passing for pacifism in this instance is not pacifism at all but only the latest tedious manifestation of a well-known pre-existing condition — the largely reactionary, largely incoherent, largely silly muddle of anti-American, anti-corporatist, anti-globalist sentiments that passes for the politics of the left these days. The second is that, again in this instance, the anti-war sentiment (to employ a term that encompasses both genuine pacifism and an opposition to war rooted in America-hatred) is intellectually dishonest, elitist and hypocritical.

That the anti-war sentiment is in general only a manifestation of the larger anomie of the reactionary left is clear. The first large anti-war demonstration was held last weekend in Washington and the most obvious fact about it was that this protest against war was planned before there was ever any thought of war. It had been intended as just another in the series of protests against globalism that have been serving as a sort of kvetch basin for all sorts of unhappy people who like to yell about the awfulness of “Amerika” or international corporations or rich people or people who drive large cars or drug companies that test their products on bunny rabbits or life its own unfair self.

When the terrorists murdered more than 6,000 people and the President said that America was going to do something commensurate about this, the organizers of the Washington protest realized they had found a fresh complaint and a fresh cause. They thought up a few new instantly tired slogans (“Resist Racist War”) and printed up a few new posters and —presto-changeo — thus was born an anti-war movement. Or something.

As to the second proposition. Osama bin Laden has told us by word and action that he sees himself and his cohort as engaged in a total war against the United States and that this war is one not just of nations but of cultures: Holy Islam versus a corrupt imperialist America. He has promised further attacks such as Sept. 11 unless the United States sues for peace under impossible terms, the abandonment of Israel being only one. In short, Osama bin Laden wishes to defeat the United States. So do others; for instance, Saddam Hussein.

Do the pacifists wish to live in a United States that has been defeated by Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein? Do they wish to live in a United States that has been defeated by any foreign force? Do they wish to live under an occupying power? Do they wish to live under, say, the laws of the Taliban or the Baath Party of Iraq?

These questions, you may say, rest on an absurd premise: Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein cannot ever hope to defeat and occupy the United States. Yes, but that is true only because the United States maintains and employs an armed force sufficient to defeat those who would defeat it. If the United States did as the pacifists wish — if it eschewed war even when attacked — it would, at some point, be conquered by a foreign regime. What stops this from happening is that the government and generally the people of the United States do not heed the wishes of the pacifists.

The anti-warriors must know that their position is a luxury made affordable only by the sure bet that no one in authority will ever accede to their position. The marchers and shouters and flag-burners in Washington pretended to the argument that war should not be waged. What they really mean is that war should not be waged by them. It should be waged by other mothers’ sons and daughters.

How many pacifists would be willing to accept the logical outcome of their creed of nonviolence even in face of attack — life as a conquered people? Not many, I would think. How many want the (mostly lower-class) men and women of the United States armed forces to continue to fight so that they may enjoy the luxury of preaching against fighting? Nearly all, I would think.

Liars. Frauds. Hypocrites. Strong letters, no doubt, to follow.

Michael Kelley is the editor of Atlantic Monthly magazine and a graduate of the University of New Hampshire.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS:
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To: xsmommy
You know..the funny thing about this article is...
If you substitute the word Moron for Pacifist...It reads just as clearly...LOL
21 posted on 10/04/2001 4:06:33 AM PDT by hobbes1
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To: Thinkin' Gal;Jeremiah Jr;babylonian;Prodigal Daughter;Zadokite;American in Israel;TrueBeliever9
Bump.
22 posted on 10/04/2001 4:22:49 AM PDT by 2sheep
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To: 2Trievers
Believe me, they wouldn't be pacifists once they conquered us. They would be as much terrorists as the taliban.
23 posted on 10/04/2001 4:25:25 AM PDT by VA Advogado
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To: Michael Kelley
How many preaching pacifism would accept life as a conquered people?

How many preaching bellicism would accept life as a conquered people?

24 posted on 10/04/2001 5:05:56 AM PDT by Benoit Baldwin
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To: 2Trievers
History shows that the writer does need to be careful. As we saw in the 60's and more recently in Seattle, Washington DC and Genoa, Italy, these alleged "pacifists" are perfectly willing to resort to violence to prove they are peaceful. From rioting to setting cars and buildings on fire to planting bombs that kill innocent bystanders, the "peace" movement is capable of much violence for they were then, are now, and will ever be: liars, frauds and hypocrites.
25 posted on 10/04/2001 5:10:31 AM PDT by Reaganesque
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: 2Trievers
How many pacifists would be willing to accept the logical outcome of their creed of nonviolence even in face of attack — life as a conquered people? Not many, I would think. How many want the (mostly lower-class) men and women of the United States armed forces to continue to fight so that they may enjoy the luxury of preaching against fighting? Nearly all, I would think.

Very good piece. Thanks for posting it.

27 posted on 10/04/2001 5:20:35 AM PDT by riley1992
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To: Benoit Baldwin
OK, I'll bite. I looked up "bellicism," possible roots, and variant spellings in two different dictionaries and found nothing. What the hell does it mean?
28 posted on 10/04/2001 5:23:26 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost
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To: hobbes1
been serving as a sort of kvetch basin for all sorts of unhappy people who like to yell about the awfulness of “Amerika” or international corporations or rich people or people who drive large cars or drug companies that test their products on bunny rabbits or life its own unfair self.

I love this! "kvetch basin", what a great phrase! i loved the original article and applaud him for the even stronger follow up.

29 posted on 10/04/2001 5:23:38 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: 2Trievers
mark...
30 posted on 10/04/2001 5:24:39 AM PDT by copycat
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To: Dear Tabby, Jim Robinson
(#10)

Yes, by "jackass" I do mean you reading this. In what sense are you free, moron?

Imbecile, I've seen your other posts. Slither back to goebbels.com.

31 posted on 10/04/2001 5:28:53 AM PDT by dighton
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To: Lee'sGhost
I think he meant:

bel·li·cose (bl-ks) adj.
Warlike in manner or temperament; pugnacious. See Synonyms at belligerent.

32 posted on 10/04/2001 5:30:20 AM PDT by fone
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To: Reaganesque
the "peace" movement is capable of much violence for they were then, are now, and will ever be: liars, frauds and hypocrites.

I have a feeling as this goes on they will do all that here but then they will have started a war too with the US and anything goes. They are actually trying now to get more military killed by making the US seem weak and divided.

33 posted on 10/04/2001 5:38:14 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: Movemout
[American pacifists are]...future slaves

I couldn't disagree more.

First of all, Americans will never let that happen regardless of how much they ask for and deserve such a fate.

Secondly, their self imposed ignorance makes their slavery very much current.

34 posted on 10/04/2001 5:57:45 AM PDT by 70times7
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To: FITZ
Not only are they the gun grabers, they are the eco terrorist, and pro-abortion baby killers.

Patrick Henry's words hold true today as they held true when he and the rest of the Founding Fathers fought for our liberty and freedom. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me LIBERTY or give me death.

35 posted on 10/04/2001 5:57:55 AM PDT by GailA
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To: 2Trievers
I think it would depend greatly on who it was that conqured them. There are many countries in the world where a lot of Americans would see little difference.
36 posted on 10/04/2001 6:00:28 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: 2Trievers
I believe it was George Orwell who said something to the effect that "the only reason you can sleep soundly at night is that rough men stand ready to do violence on your behalf."
37 posted on 10/04/2001 6:00:59 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: 2Trievers
BUMP!
38 posted on 10/04/2001 6:01:11 AM PDT by Inge_CAV
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To: G.Mason
All your freedom are belong to us!
39 posted on 10/04/2001 6:02:08 AM PDT by 70times7
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To: fone
Could be. Thanks. I know what bellicose is. What do you expect from someone who make "Baldwin" part of their posting name.
40 posted on 10/04/2001 6:06:13 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost
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