GOD DID IT, PART II

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[VinnyTex]

GOD DID IT, PART II: Reader Randall Parker calls my attention to this Worldnet Daily article by Anthony C. LoBaido, which makes Jerry Falwell's offensive theodicy look sophisticated and kind. A small sample:

Is New York the head of the "Great Satan"? All that is evil in the world can be found in New York: MTV, the United Nations, the U.N. abortion programs, the Council on Foreign Relations, New Age Church of St. John the Divine, Wall Street greed, Madison Avenue manipulation and of course more confirmed AIDS cases than the rest of America combined. Let's remember the filthy sodomite gay parade last summer in New York. Let's remember all the New York politicians falling all over themselves to praise this sick spectacle.

And let's not forget that New Yorkers elected—by a landslide—the openly Marxist, treasonous and abortion-mongering, occultic Hillary to a Senate seat. All while fully knowing what she was all about.

So are we all innocent here in New York? Are we innocent with our porno, drugs, filthy Jay Leno monologues, our idolatry, materialism and consumerism? Innocent when Republican Governor George Pataki stands next to the blood-stained dictator of Communist China as he rings the opening bell for the stock market on Wall Street?...

Can the remnant in America help but honestly ask themselves: Is this the fulfillment of Revelation chapters 17 and 18 (Mystery Babylon) or has God raised up Shiite Islam as a sword against America?

These guys should apologize to their fellow Americans, but first they should apologize to God. Since WND chooses to end the piece with a plug for my friend Hugh Hewitt's book, implicating Hugh in the article's sentiment, I've asked Hugh for a response. I hope he will cancel his Worldnet Daily column. Free speech is essential as government policy, but there are some people, as Ramesh Ponnuru puts it in this excellent column, whom civilized people should not let into our houses. Not only LoBaido but the editors who published him should be shunned. [Posted 9/15.]

[Proud2BAmerican]

Not to mention, I frequently find these same types of people claiming this is God's retribution on us, while at the same time, out of the other side of their mouth, talking about how God really has it in store for Israel's enemies (namely, Palestinians). Well, which is it? Does God regularly bomb Israel's best and only legitimate friend in the world?

[RnMomof7]

Is it possible that God would use Islamic fundamentalists as an instrument of His judgment? All I can say is that the Bible plainly states that God used the Philistines as an instrument of his judgment against ancient Israel, and the Philistines were into human sacrifice for Pete's sake! We are all heartsick over the tragedies that occurred last week. We mourn with the rest of the nation. Who knows if there was an element of God's judgment in all of this? No one can say with certainty. But it does seem plausible.

That will not be a "popular" opinion :>)

[A.J.Armitage]

Falwell could have a terrorist network if he wanted one. There are people who'd join. Words aren't as bad or as good as deeds.

[RnMomof7]

I am, but are you? Then who are you mad at, the drunk or God for allowing it to happen?

I told you that my 17 month old granson drown..I see that as part of Gods plan..no anger..no hopelessnes.

I trust God and His plan

[sinkspur]

I said eithor God caused it or he allowed it..I see little difference in the statements..

Words mean things.

If God caused it, then He directly intervened to destroy His creation.

If He allowed it, then the evil minds of certain men are responsible.

Eithor God is in charge or He is not

God is in charge, but we are not puppets.

[ikanakattara]

After awhile, you begin to recognize the stench of this particular mindset. There are "fifth columnists" from the left, and "fifth columnists" from the right, and sometimes it's easier to get blindsided from the right.

[aruanan]

See my other post, Jerry Falwell and Osama bin Laden: Soul Brothers.

[mustapha mond]

Ok,all you completly foolish sounding people who are comparing Falwell to Islamic Terrorists check out Freedom House, Amnesty International, or Voice of the Martyrs. It will show proof (something ignorant folks on this thread failed to collect in regard to Falwells vast terrorist network) that every Islamic country is a dictatorship, every neighbor is threatened, every minority in an islamic state is persecuted.

Check the facts before you make greater fools of yourself.

[sinkspur]

Islamic fundamentalists are dangerous; Jerry Falwell is merely foolish.

[Hank Kerchief]

The problem here is that you all believe you are dealing
others who have the same values as you. These "God's
judgement" folks do not have the same values as we do. They
have absolutely no concern with human suffering, in
fact, they believe that most human beings are going to
suffer unimaginable torment forever, and are quite
happy about it.

They do not believe that causing human suffering and pain
and death is evil. They believe the evil of any act
depends on who does it. For example, they do not
believe the fact that thousands of human beings suffered
terror, and who knows how much pain, and then died in
the planes and the WTC was evil in itself. After all,
they believe that most of those who suffered these indescribable
terrors were upon their death, immediately
ushered into a place of eternal horror and suffering by
the God they worship.

These same people will condemn the terrorists for doing to
people, for a little while, what they believe their
God is going to do to them forever.

Do you really expect rational answers from such people? It
is best to leave them alone. They are very
ineffectual, in any case.

By the way, if there happens to be a response from any of
these folks to this, I predict it will be
vituperative rather than cogent, just to prove my case.

Hank

[drlevy88]

'sup to Him. Look at the book of Job to see a typical scenario. We do know the results, which always, always ends up blowing up in Satan's face some way or other. Satan never learns.

[Gumption]

I trust God and His plan

So why, IYO, should people not drink and drive, or why should we have lifeguards or hospitals for that matter?

[RnMomof7]

Remember this, when Jesus taught us how to pray, He taught us the prayer in Matthew. One of the lines in the prayer is "Your will be done on earth, AS IT IS IN HEAVEN".

Now, will someone please tell me if they think God destroys buildings in heaven and kills 5000 people?? God cannot bring to earth what He does not have. There is nothing evil in heaven, therefore, God cannot bring evil to the earth.

God is not in the destroying business; God is in the restoration business. He sent Jesus to die for us, so He could restore His relationship with us.

Did God have the city of Sodom in heaven?Did he have the tower of Bable in heaven? How is it He could cause a flood..did He have the entire earth in heaven?

These are spiritual matters not temporal..

Gods judgement is sure Sue..We call on His name in our Pledge,on our coins,in our songs..and we live like Sodom

He is holy and will not be mocked!

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

[jude24]

God is Sovereign and is in control..read your bible

:-)

What will the_doc say?

[chaffer2]

The difference is that Jerry Falwell lacks a terrorist network.

You're actually saying you believe that Falwell, given a "network", would proceed to
murder thousands of fellow Americans.

I'm no fan of Falwell, but that is just ridiculous slander.

[drlevy88]

Let me address your sharpest objection by saying that, in one perspective, people send themselves to hell by rejecting salvation from their sins "no matter what." It's a spiritual matter between the person's soul and the Holy Spirit. Nobody who is willing to be saved, will be lost. The Bible shows us so -- "God is not willing that any should perish but all come to eternal life." It's up to you to say yes or no. Don't complain if you won't come in from the cold then find yourself freezing to death.

[mustapha mond]

I don't get your problem with Falwell. He is a Christian who has read the Bible. Everyone knows that when the people of Israel strayed from God tragedy befell them. They spent a lot of time as slaves. Falwell is simply warning us out of Love according to his Faith.

This does not shift blame from the Islamic attackers it is a comment on the nature of the defenders (us).

We need to take what he said and learn from it.

[Dryman]

In all or your requests about what God may or may not do, You seem determined to set the parameters for which God acts. It is much easier to prove a point to the simple-minded that way.

Do you know how HE is supposed to behave?

Evil people "appear" to prosper; Good people "appear" to suffer. I have an idea about what the end is, but I am not prepared to say I have the entire script with everybody's acts and lines laid out.

Start asking about People's Faith. That is where the rubber meets the road.

[Southern Federalist]

I've tried to stay out of religion arguments on FR, but this and some of the posts in response are just appalling.

Of course, if God is all-powerful and all-knowing, then he "permitted" this to happen. But neither you nor I nor this idiot nor the posters who like this junk know why God permitted it. That's what it means to say we live by faith in a God who brought good out of the worst thing that ever happened, the crucifixion of his Son.

The problem with these people is that they want to make God's judgment for him. Something bad has happened and they really, really want it to be God finally settling scores with all the people they resent. God didn't tell them that; they are connecting the tragedy with their favorite parts of Scripture (with other parts carefully ignored) to get a result that is emotionally satisfying to them. As though God gave us the Bible so we could know when he is judging other people!

Yes, God will judge the whole earth. "But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father (Matthew 24:36). We have nothing but their say-so that it started last Tuesday.

Yes, the Bible tells of God permitting Israel to suffer in order to bring about repentance. But we have only their say-so that this is a case of the same thing. In the New Testament, "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" (Rev. 19:10), not obsessive ramblings about how other people are getting what's coming to them.

Here's another way the Bible talks about suffering (I think it's the one Sinkspur has referred to, only he misremembered the ailment):

As he walked along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him,"Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned; he was born blind so that God's works might be revealed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." John 9:1-5.

I take that to mean that the meaning of human suffering is found in the mercy of the God who heals our wounds.

Jesus also explicitly denied that the people on whom a disaster came were "worse sinners" than others. The only "message" he saw in the disaster was that everyone needs to repent, not just those people. See Luke 13:4-5.

It's hard enough to have to defend our country's honor from all the Blame America First posters on here lately. It's a bit thick to have to defend God from people who think he's a cosmic terrorist.

[Lion's Cub]

Before you eat each other up and cause a hardening of hearts all around, I would like to point out that I believe both sides of the argument are correct.

My own experience is that God does allow punishment and chastisement, but He does it out of love. There will be a time for God's wrath, but that time is not yet. We are still in the Age of Grace.

As a nation, we HAVE done much to anger God. But He is still patient, not willing that any should perish.

Yes, the hedge was removed for a moment, just as it was in WWII. But that was done so that much good could come from it. Are we not a stronger, more united nation today than we were one week ago? Are we not looking hard at the results of our past behavior? Are more people not looking hard for answers to the meaning and the sanctity of life? Have we not been reminded just how precious and fragile a life is? Are we all not thanking God for each of those people we have left? Are we not being kinder and more loving to each other? Aren't we all making an extra effort to get along and pull together? Has not a generation we thought was lost to selfishness now stepped up to the plate? Are we not being reminded that there is such a thing as righteous anger? I certainly feel it; don't you?

We are all guilty of sin--it's part of our human nature. Were those who died worse sinners than we? Of course not! Some were believers, some were not. The rain falls on all of us.

Did they die in vain? NO! For the real judgement is about to descend on the Bin Ladens of this world.

That's how I see it.