Posted on 02/04/2025 4:06:41 AM PST by McGruff
Excluding Ukraine from U.S.-led talks involving the withdrawal of Russian troops from Kyiv's eastern front would set a "dangerous" precedent to dictators across the globe, warned Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
"If there will be direct talks between America and Russia without Ukraine, it is very dangerous, I think," Zelenskyy said in a Saturday interview with the Associated Press. "They may have their own relations, but talking about Ukraine without us – it is dangerous for everyone."
Zelenskyy argued that doing so would validate Russian President Vladimir Putin’s brutal invasion and "show that he was right" because he received "impunity" and "compromise."
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Speaking with Fox News on Friday, Trump’s special envoy for Ukraine and Russia, retired Army Lt. Gen. Keith Kellogg said, “Everybody is pulling together” on ending the three-year-long war in Ukraine.
“It’s important because we realize it is actually in our national security interest to get this war resolved,” Kellogg said. “When you look at the money the United States has provided, which is over $174 billion, when you look at the alliance that has now formed with Russia, with North Korea, with China and Iran – that wasn’t there before.”
“Shut up, Meg.”
Ukraine is only fighting this stupid war because the U.S. and UK insisted on it. Why would he care that the players are negotiating behind his back when he’s been functioning as their lap dog for several years now?
Ukraine is only fighting this war because
1. Germany and France rejected Ukraine (and Georgia’s) request to join NATO in 2008 — Germany/France rejected them for “fear of provoking Putin” - nah, Putin was happy NATO didn’t take in Ukraine and Georgia and Putin invaded Georgia 6 weeks later
2. Putin’s military invaded and grabbed Crimea in 2014 - despite the Budapest memorandum of 1994, which was ratified by Putin in 2004 - stating that Russia would respect Ukraine’s borders.
3. Putin’s military invaded Ukraine for the 2nd time in Feb 2022, aiming for a head-shot. That failed and the Ukrainians discovered they had a spine and fought off the Muscowite horde - not completely, but enough to still be alive.
Who is this “Z” guy?
z getting rowdy :)
I would observe that Peace Talks “WITH” Ukraine have been non-existent so it can’t hurt to try them “WITHOUT” Zelensky input instead.
Z’s voice is a little noise of no consequence now.
Since Zelenskyyy is nothing but a puppet anyways, he can be placed on the shelf...strings and all.
Actually, you give Nuland too much credit that she doesn’t deserve.
Putin’s goal since the early 2000s has been to recreate the Tsarist empire. This is also a native Muscowite sentiment - they haven’t gotten over the loss of empire.
She (as the US Ambassador to Europe) did pressure Ukraine to take actions against corruption, particularly in the office of the State Prosecutor. For instance, prior to Biden saying anything to Ukraine’s President, she pressured Ukraine to replace Viktor Shokin and take action to investigate corruption. One of the public things she has said in Ukraine was: “It’s time to start locking up people who have ripped off the Ukrainian population for too long and it is time to eradicate the cancer of corruption”
Nuland, like her other Western colleagues, were caught completely unprepared by the Maidan revolution. Their plan was a slow process of building the local civil society that would harness the power of the social media to eventually, over time, strengthen the Ukrainian democratic institutions. That uprising was caused and driven by the local events, e.g. actions of the Yanukovich administration and their enforcers, relevant to the Ukrainian citizenry. The Western diplomats, naturally, quickly embraced the unfolding popular uprising. But they did not initiate it, or contributed to it, other than by recognizing the will of the Ukrainian people and the democratically elected governments that followed.
There is also the transcript of the call between Victoria nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt — https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
Read it - it shows zero indication of any planning or even knowledge of any coup.
Ukrainians protested Yanukovych not fulfilling his campaign promises of closer economic ties to the EU as they had the right to do under the Ukrainian Constitution. He ordered that the police open fire on them. 108 Ukrainians were killed. Then scared to death about what he had done he fled the country with a big percentage of the Ukrainian treasury. He abandoned his job. The next day the Parliament voted to remove him from office, as the law allowed. It wasn’t a coup, the man abandoned his job. Three months later the people of the country held an election and elected someone who was willing to show up.
Yanukovych, a russian puppet, ran away whilst he was still President and relinquished his role, never returning to Ukraine.
Yanukovich could have stayed, he could have plead his case. He could have made the public arguement for why he did what he did. He didn’t do that though. Instead he burned a bunch of documents, packed a suitcase full of cash and fled in the middle of the night.
There was no armed uprising
There was no fifth column.
There wasn’t even a singular political leader who opposed him who stepped into his role. Ukraine had a short lived provisional government until a new election was held. Their constitution was never suspended
Ukraine, like every other democracy, has acts in place that deal with an absent leader and enacted them accordingly.
Russia decided to call this a coup in an effort to de-legitimise the Ukrainian government because it objected to the removal of its puppet. It did not like the idea of a free democratic nation on its border.
“despite the Budapest memorandum of 1994”
Will you all shut up about the Budapest memorandum already. I’ll forgive you for being a foreigner and not understanding how our system works. The Budapest memorandum was never submitted to the US Senate for ratification as Clinton knew it would likely lose 100-0. It has no force in law and is only a Bill Clinton promise and thus worthless. That’s one thing I won’t forgive you on, believing and trusting Bill Clinton.
Actually, that's false
First round - 28.Feb.2022 - Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Belarusian president Alexander Lukashenko agreed on 27 February that a Ukrainian delegation would meet with Russian officials on the Belarusian border, near the Pripyat River, without preconditions. Talks began on 28 February, near the Belarusian border. The Ukrainian president's office said that the main goals were to call for an immediate ceasefire, and for Russian troops to be withdrawn from Ukraine. It concluded with no immediate agreements
Second round (3 March 2022)
On 3 March, the second round of peace talks began. Both sides agreed to open humanitarian corridors for evacuating civilians. The Israeli PM Naftali Bennet led this round
Third round (7 March 2022)
A third round of negotiations began on 7 Marc. Dmitry Peskov restated Moscow's demands for Ukraine to formally recognize the Muscowite annexation of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk
Fourth round (14–17 March 2022)
The fourth round of negotiations began on 14 March via video conference. The talks lasted a few hours and ended without a breakthrough. The two sides resumed talks on 15 March.
Fifth round (21 March 2022)
The fifth round of talks, on 21 March, failed to achieve a breakthrough. Zelenskyy called for direct talks with Putin to end the war. Sergey Lavrov said direct talks between the two presidents would only go ahead once both sides are closer to reaching a settlement
In contrast, throughout 2023 Russia rejected talks -->
January 2023 - Putin's spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said that "there is currently no prospect for diplomatic means of settling the situation around Ukraine." followed by
14 March 2023 - Peskov said "We have to achieve our goals. Right now this is only possible by military means"
THEN in 2024 -- Putin outlined Russia's terms for a ceasefire. He said that Russia would not negotiate unless Ukraine handed over the provinces of Ukraine claimed by Russia: all of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts, including the parts Russia does not control.
So yes, Ukraine has been there in the Peace talks in which Putin has constantly demanded that he gain the land, even that he doesn't hold
Winning for Putin was making Ukraine a subservient state like Belarus.
You do know that Putin is in the midst of swallowing Belarus into the Russian Federation, right? That was his plan for Ukraine considering his constant statements over the decades that Ukraine is “not a legitimate country” and that it should be brought “back” into Russia.
“NATO membership” is a red herring waved by Putin that dopes fall for.
In 2014 there was no question of Ukraine getting NATO membership or even a pathway - but Putin invaded then.
In 2008 Ukraine (and Georgia) applied for NATO membership but were rejected by Germany and France — you know why? “For fear of provoking Putin”.
did that make him happy? Nope - he invaded Georgia 6 WEEKS later - if Germany and France had agreed to let Georgia and Ukraine into associate membership then neither the Georgian nor the 2 Ukrainian wars would have happened.
But note that Putin invaded despite NATO membership being unequivocally rejected.
“Dangerous” to Z and his corruptocrat cronies. Does anyone care what this pervert-made-dictator says about anything?
Unless you consider Muscowy your country
It doesn’t matter. It’s still worthless since it was only a Bill Clinton promise, not a treaty. Why would Russia honor it if we don’t?
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