Posted on 07/06/2024 2:35:37 PM PDT by Red6
Hours after a battle in eastern Ukraine in August, a wounded and unarmed Russian soldier crawled through a nearly destroyed trench, seeking help from his captors, a unit of international volunteers led by an American.
Caspar Grosse, a German medic in that unit, said he saw the soldier plead for medical attention in a mix of broken English and Russian. It was dusk. A team member looked for bandages.
That is when, Mr. Grosse said, a fellow soldier hobbled over and fired his weapon into the Russian soldier’s torso. He slumped, still breathing. Another soldier fired — “just shot him in the head,” Mr. Grosse recalled in an interview.
Mr. Grosse said he was so upset by the episode that he confronted his commander. He said he spoke to The New York Times after what he regarded as unwarranted killings continued. It is highly unusual for a soldier to speak publicly about battlefield conduct, particularly involving men whom he still considers friends.
But he said he was too troubled to keep silent.
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The shooting of the unarmed, wounded Russian soldier is one of several killings that have unsettled the Chosen Company, one of the best-known units of international troops fighting on behalf of Ukraine.
Mr. Grosse’s witness recollection is the only available evidence of the trench killing. But his accounts of other episodes are bolstered by his contemporaneous notes, video footage and text messages exchanged by members of the unit and reviewed by The Times.
In a second episode, a Chosen member lobbed a grenade at and killed a surrendering Russian soldier who had his hands raised, video footage reviewed by The Times shows. The Ukrainian military released video of the episode to showcase its battlefield prowess, but it edited out the surrender.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Our MSM pretty much chose a side early on.
Here's the problem with this war. It leaves the taste of a civil war in ones mouth. This is largely a civil war (Nationalists vs. ethnic Russians), where the West came in and chose the side which benefited them most, and the Russians swooped in and chose their side. We were never fair/objective neither in our policies and how we dealt with Ukraine, nor in our reporting of this war.
The arguments made in support of this expeditionary, expansionist, non-national security based military endeavor, were "democracy, human rights, and sovereignty." These were used as moral rationalizations for our involvement.
The problem is that Ukraine is no role model for democracy, human rights, or sovereignty. These are arguments that appeal to ignorance, i.e. for those who do not know better they sound good.
There was a very long lead up to this war. While NATO East expansion was the tipping point which set this off, there were many other issues along the way which were grossly mishandled politically and definitely added to the distrust and adversarial climate we have today with Russia.
I'm not saying that we are entirely to blame, I'm also not saying Russia is the good guy. But there is a shared responsibility here and some degree of culpability on our side may it have been:
--The end of the Conventional Forces Europe treaty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Conventional_Armed_Forces_in_Europe
--Ballistic Missile treaty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty
--NATO East expansion: https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east
--Our ignoring Minsk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements
--Attempts at violating Montreux: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits
--Our blatant invasion of the Russian sphere of influence in Venezuela, Syria, Iraq and Libya (all aligned with Russia or even formal allies which we attacked, invaded and occupy, or sponsored coups in):
There is a huge degree of hypocrisy on our side, seeing how we would NEVER accept the situation we are putting Russia in, and in fact historically have not, example Cuban Missile Crisis.
Our MSM has mostly ignored the Russian perspective. But there are two sides to every story and such is also the case today regards Ukraine.
Our MSM has no problem not reporting about such events in the past (this isn't a first), downplaying the Nazi influence in some Ukrainian units and politics which persists to this day, the use of mercenaries by Ukraine and how we are indirectly paying for them (realize, US tax dollars helped pay for these guys that did this), letting BS stories like the Ghost of Kiev or battle for Snake Island persist, downplaying Ukrainian casualties (not even mentioning it if possible), hardly even reporting on the Ukrainian involvement in what are outright terrorist attacks in Moscow and St. Peterberg, the use of US made cluster munitions that end up getting used on civilian targets on a beach (ATACMS) but pretending to be outraged when the Russians used such on military targets, hardly covering the forced conscription tactics used in Ukraine, hardly covering how Mr. Z as of May is a dictator (cancelled elections), how they censor, arrest foreign journalists that dare report derogatory information, banning all opposition parties, shutting down radio and TV stations that report anything derogatory, a failed counter offensive just disappeared, and as Russia gains more land every day that is also not mentioned...
In America, where you have a "watchdog media" stories about this hardly even got coverage: https://nypost.com/2024/01/15/news/american-filmmaker-arrested-and-jailed-for-spreading-pro-russia-propaganda-dies-in-ukrainian-prison/ (he wasn't saying the right things!)
Something other than the one sided humdrum of pro-Ukraine, pro-war, we are right, Russia is wrong, Putin has a mental disease, Russian soldiers are all cross eyed and stumbling into each other while Ukraine is an army of hero's... Rare.
The one sided crap where we are still talking/dreaming about winning sounds like something from the Wochenschau in 1945: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1rsiK1LIKk
We should not be involved at all.
Europe owns this 100%.
I wish the US had stayed out of the European theater in both world wars.
U.S. Military expects other militaries to follow at least a modicum of military excellence and treat captured and/or wounded the same as they would hope to be treated. What this event symbolizes is the vast difference of cultures between nordic, germanic, baltic and generally Europeans from Asian, latin, hispanic cultures. they’re all different, some have scruples and honor and some do not. Every war seems to breed a different type of animal, it seems the current bunch liken themselves to more primitive tribal mores.Sad.
Agreed. Not our fight. Britain and France know how to handle it! “Half a league, Half a league, Half a league Onward!”
Yes. I agree in the main.
This Economics expert , Sachs, has been in the news for years, several decades at least and his hasn’t shown any Russia bias before that I’ve noticed.
His argument is similar to your post:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LmQza2d7_Q&list=PLbCcEP_kZ1qiEbE2WatgeVBPzd2KAP3iP
Normal for Nazis on the eastern front. And typical Uke stupidity. The story gets out, and your enemy decides he might as well fight to the death rather than surrender.
If they had any sense (they don’t) they would put out vids of anyone surrendering getting aid, a cool drink of water and a Snickers.
Think of how wealthy and beautiful this country would have been without the two world wars, countless “Operation Eagle Boners” and crooked foreign aid deals.
Think of how wealthy and beautiful this country would have been without the two world wars ... as half of us speak German and the other half, Japanese.
Just peachy
All of this insanity over a war that cannot end well for anybody.
Madness. Sheer Madness !
This could be sign that time is up for Ukraine and it’s time to get their story ‘behind us’ as we enter the 2024 Campaign Season. After all, why else out them for the war criminals that people paying attention already know they are, when the gaslighting has been so incredibly effective in the West (although not in the rest of the world)?
The New York Times, along with the Washington Post, represents the unofficial mouthpieces of the Federal Government. (The deep state part of it, not the official elected Executive Branch, unless he's a Democrat.)
What I find interesting is that now there appears to be a move by the deep state to chuck Ukraine under the bus. They wouldn't be running these sort of stories unless their government masters saw a need to create distance for US involvement in Ukraine.
This is very strange that they would now run a derogatory story against their overseas money laundering operation. I now suspect they believe a win by Russia is inevitable.
Had we stayed out in WW I, there never would have been a WW II.
Thanks Woodrow. Everything he did just screwed up the world a little bit more.
If we had kept our nose out of World War I, there would not have been a World War II.
We likely would have ended up with a German dominated Europe that would look little different from what our modern German dominated Europe looks like right now.
No one has even mentioned that this unit is being led by an American. Is he a mercenary or a legit US service member? Important question because we aren’t supposed to have boots on the ground. Uncle Joke promised us.
neoCONs are some sick puppies.
He was Russian / white and Christian, so it’s ok, right neoCON scum?
I don’t condone killing surrendering soldiers.
But the Ukes lived through the horror of the Holodomor,
They have memories of the Russians we don’t have.
and act accordingly.
You want to get a flavor of it in America style, read the book Andersonville, it is fiction but lots of it based on real facts, darn close to the reality of it all when you are pissed off at the enemy.
As far as Europe goes, it was Russia that abrogated the INF treaty by introducing nuclear capable missiles into Western Russia including Kaliningrad and also violated the OSCE force limitations on the placement of armor in Western Russia.
Meanwhile, in NATO, forces were continuously diminished, including US forces in Europe, with Obama withdrawing the last armored units before Putin's 2014 invasion of Ukraine. No new permanent military bases for outside forces were placed in the new NATO states prior to Putin's 2022 invasion of Ukraine.
As far as sovereignty goes, Chechnya was never recognized by any NATO member as independent. Despite Russia's appalling tactics in reconquering the territory, all Western powers acknowledged the sanctity of Russia's internationally recognized borders and considered the war an internal affair.
Ukraine's borders are internationally recognized and there isn't any reason besides machismo and a desire to annihilate the entire Ukrainian state for the current conflict, which was initiated simply by Putin's imperial vainglory and weakness of the junta currently controlling the sock puppet DC, many of whom also did nothing in 2014, which Putin understood very well. If Trump had remained President, Putin would not have dared to invade Ukraine again.
Someone is desperate for a hot war between the U.S. and Russia — one which risks going nuclear.
There's also an issue not mentioned: you're not under any obligation to take prisoners if the tactical situation is too unstable to guard them and transport them to the rear. US Marines captured and executed a taxi full of unarmed young men after an IED attack in Haditha for that reason. They were charged but acquitted.
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