J.D. Vance says Ukraine will have to ‘cede some territory’

1ft.io ^ | 10 Dec23 | Ramsey Touchberry

[delta7]

Sen. J.D. Vance said Sunday that U.S. officials should accept the notion that Ukraine is likely to “cede some territory” in its fight against unprovoked Russian aggression. The Ohio Republican’s remarks come as Congress weighs more aid for Ukraine, with Democrats calling for additional assistance with few if any strings attached and Republicans trying to link aid to more funding to secure the southern U.S. border. “What’s in America’s best interest is to accept Ukraine is going to have to cede some territory to the Russians and we need to bring this war to a close,” Mr. Vance, who opposes more aid, said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “But when I think about the great human tragedy here, hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans innocent have been killed in this conflict, the thing that’s in our interest and in theirs is to stop the killing.” President Biden has requested another $60 billion for Ukraine as part of a $110 billion national security package that also includes money for Israel and Taiwan. “On the Ukraine question, in particular, everybody with a brain in their head knows this was always going to end in negotiation,” Mr. Vance said. “The idea that Ukraine was going to throw Russia back to the 1991 border was preposterous. Nobody actually believed it.”

What we’re saying to the president, and really to the entire world, is ‘You need to articulate what the ambition is. What is $61 billion going to accomplish that $100 billion hasn’t?’” he added.

[BroJoeK]

Kazan: "He’s my Senator.
I voted from him.
He’s putting America first and representing his constituents.
Don’t like it? Became a Democrat and stay the hell out of my state."

This is JD Vance's money-quote:

"What we’re saying to the president, and really to the entire world, is ‘You need to articulate what the ambition is.
What is $61 billion going to accomplish that $100 billion hasn’t?’ " he added.

That has been the conservative Republican position -- my position -- from Day One in February 2022:

1. What is your plan for victory?

2. Why are we sending Ukraine just enough aid to keep fighting but not enough to actually win?

Now, if I understand Democrats, then they have no plan for victory because they are afraid of victory, and are content to lose after a long bloody battle.

So, Vance is correct to raise these questions.
If there are no plans to win, then there is no good reason for further bloodshed.

That is the genuine conservative Republican outlook, and notice I expressed it without using even one word of Russian propaganda lies.

[JonPreston]

$$$$$$$$$

Ukraine's Zelensky met with leaders of US defense companies in Washington. pic.twitter.com/j9nVjGHsvZ— Clash Report (@clashreport) December 12, 2023

[JonPreston]

That has been the conservative Republican position -- my position

[BroJoeK]

Chad C. Mulligan: "Moscow strove to be an imperial power to compete with Spain, Britain and France.
Lacking a navy, they did it by over-running all their neighbors. "

rxh4n1: "Do you mean during WWII?
Yes, they did, because those countries were between The SU and Germany, or actively helping Germany.
Also, you neglect to mention they voluntarily left in 1991 so your claim is faulty."

Chad C. Mulligan: "The clock starts in 1547 with Ivan the Terrible.
Moscow has been expansionist ever since.
Which points up the problem with you Putin Pushers.
You don’t actually know any history, and to make matters worse you don’t even seem to care."

Right, Russia has always been an empire -- a prison of nations -- and when stronger it expands, conquering more, when weaker it loses territories.
Lately, Vlad the Invader was feeling stronger and so did what any Russian does when they can, he invaded his neighbors, starting with Georgia in 2008, then Ukraine in 2014... do you see the pattern here?

But years before that, Putin announced his intentions:

"In a 2005 Kremlin speech, Putin characterized the collapse of the Soviet Union as the 'greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the Twentieth Century.' "

Russian propaganda today is all about showing Putin correcting that "catastrophe".

[dennisw]

https://ricochet.com/1214468/finnish-intelligence-officer-explains-the-russian-mindset/

I saw this months ago and read it twice. I will read it today again. More later. See Vlad’s high cheekbones? This is his Mongolian blood.

[dennisw]

But years before that, Putin announced his intentions:

“In a 2005 Kremlin speech, Putin characterized the collapse of the Soviet Union as the ‘greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the Twentieth Century.’ “
Russian propaganda today is all about showing Putin correcting that “catastrophe”.
________________________

Only a catastrophe in his evil brain. Putin was the only one who wanted to invade Ukraine. Why? Because raw capitalism via wealthy oligarchs is what really runs Russia these days. Not dusty old Tsarist fantasies. And Putin is bad for business. Russia’s hydrocarbon exports business. Oligarchs need to kill / defenestrate this Putin, and they will.

The world had a very nice peaceful interlude for every other nation, while Russia was on the ropes. Example: The old KGB was a prime mischief-maker in the Middle East. Now with Putin, this is back with the Russia-Iran alliance. Putin loves to ally with Muslims such as Chechens and Iranians. He fancies he is using them. But his Muslim pets are using him much more. How? Because Muslims are united under the Muhammed cult of personality. Putin’s cult of personality is pathetic. Because he never founded a loony religion.

Look at L Ron Hubbard. He was smart enough to start his own religion. So Scientology endures. Hubbard said -— If you want to get rich, start a religion.

[JonPreston]

More Neocon nonsense. Please take your Russia hate and pitch it on the Art Bell hour.

[dennisw]

Art Bell died about 10 years ago.

[rxh4n1]

“he invaded his neighbors, starting with Georgia in 2008, then Ukraine in 2014... do you see the pattern here?”

Yes, they did invade Georgia, and they stopped. they could have easily conquered the whole region, but they didn’t. Why didn’t they? They didn’t because they didn’t want to. They could have given them the Chechen treatment, but it wasn’t worth the trouble. In Ukraine, they are now holding on to the parts they really want. They are not going to attack NATO; they know we could destroy them if we had to.

[JonPreston]

Art Bell died about 10 years ago

The Soviet Union died in 1991.

[ridesthemiles]

NOT ONE INCH

[delta7]

Very good analysis. The collective West can not be trusted. Their Minsk Agreement scam was evidence. Vlad ( and the world know this) took their bait in good faith, he will not be fooled again.

When they blew up Nordstream, and the dam, it illustrated the evil of senile Joe’s administration…….fortunately many Ukies ( and EU members) are waking up to the fact they are being used as the collective West’s cannon fodder.

[delta7]

More Neocon nonsense. Please take your Russia hate and pitch it on the Art Bell hour.
———
The Ukie war cheerleaders bought into Joe’s ( and Democrats) Russian Derangement Syndrome. It infected many just before Trump’s election, and many are still infected with this sickness.

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "$$$$$$$$$...
Ukraine's Zelensky met with leaders of US defense companies in Washington..."

Right, just like after 1776 US representatives Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson & others met with French, Dutch, German, Spanish & other defense companies in Paris, Amsterdam, Madrid & elsewhere.

These eventually resulted in massive aid coming to Continental Army Gen. Washington, leading to victory at Yorktown in 1781.

Aid from France especially was so massive it helped drive the French king into bankruptcy, causing him to call for actions which eventually cost the king and his bride their heads.

This is how wars for independence are sometimes fought.

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "That has been the conservative Republican position -- my position"

You don't look conservative or Republican to me.

[JonPreston]

You don't look conservative or Republican to me"

I'm neither. I'm an independent Trump voter. There is absolutely no group or club that has you as a member that would attract me, or the many millions of blue-collar Americans like me. If you took your conservative Republican credentials, packaged them up in a candidate, you'd see the current 50 point spread between Trump and the assorted packaged, corporate stiffs in the current primary cycle. So go take your war pitch, runaway deficit spending and crony tax policy somewhere else. Your GOP got lazy and there's been a hostile takeover. You and your fellow Neocons just don't realize it yet.

[JonPreston]

NEW - Tucker Carlson, David Sacks, and Congresswoman Luna talk about Biden blocking a peace deal at the start of the Ukraine War, resulting in the death of hundreds of thousands of young Ukrainians.@TuckerCarlson: "This war wouldn't be still in progress, were it not for the… pic.twitter.com/QyXH2GOsVK— KanekoaTheGreat (@KanekoaTheGreat) December 13, 2023

[BroJoeK]

rxh4n1: "Yes, they did invade Georgia, and they stopped. they could have easily conquered the whole region, but they didn’t.
Why didn’t they?
They didn’t because they didn’t want to.
They could have given them the Chechen treatment, but it wasn’t worth the trouble.
In Ukraine, they are now holding on to the parts they really want.
They are not going to attack NATO; they know we could destroy them if we had to."

Maybe... and yet... somehow, we can't destroy Russia in Ukraine, can we?
So, you are understating both Russia's capabilities and their ambitions, not to mention their willingness to suffer massive casualties, as demonstrated since February 2022.

Further, you have not been listening to Russian government's propaganda to their own people lately.
They are absolutely revanchist, expansionist, imperialists -- to restore the old Soviet/Tsarist empires.

Of course, you are 100% entitled to keep your own head planted firmly in the sand, but that didn't work so well for the West during the 1930s, did it?

[Gaffer]

I heard Erick Erickson on the radio the other day saying the same thing.

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "The Soviet Union died in 1991."

But then 39-year-old Soviet KGB LtCol Vladimir Putin is still far from dead and has announced his intentions to restore as much of his old empire as he can.

That's what this is all about.