[maddog55]

3 U.S. Code § 15 - Counting electoral votes in Congress

(a) In General.—
Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o’clock in the afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall be their presiding officer.

(b) Powers of the President of Senate.—
(1) Ministerial in nature.—
Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, the role of the President of the Senate while presiding over the joint session shall be limited to performing solely ministerial duties.

(2) Powers explicitly denied.—
The President of the Senate shall have no power to solely determine, accept, reject, or otherwise adjudicate or resolve disputes over the proper certificate of ascertainment of appointment of electors, the validity of electors, or the votes of electors.

Point being he has to accept what the states provided him as acceptable. It’s the STATES responsibility to make sure the electors and results are correct.

As we know, several states weren’t but no courts heard the issues.

Pence is a dick but your either for the Constitution and the laws or your not.

[Jim Noble]

This “case” (which is actually not one) is Constitutional science fiction.

The “election” alleged to be fraudulent has no Constitutional existence. The 50 State Legislatures which appoint 535 Electors (and Congress, which appoints 3) have all adopted the custom of having people voting as the means by which the appointments are normally made, but this creates 51 elections, not one.

Those 51 elections occur at the direction of, and are subservient to, 50 legislatures and Congress. The States unwisely granted Congress 3 Electors by ratifying the XXIII Amendment in 1960, so Congress does have supervisory power OVER THOSE THREE, but not otherwise.

There is only one Presidential election in the Constitution, it takes place in December, there are 538 voters, and in December 2020 Biden got 306 of them and was elected President.

No State Legislature objected that its Electors were not the ones they had appointed. No State Legislature even convened to consider the matter. In the case of Pennsylvania, the Legislature fled to avoid considering the matter.

It has never been alleged that a single one of the 306 votes for Biden/Harris was a forgery, that the Electors who casted them were impersonating someone else, or that the Legislatures had secretly appointed other Electors.

There is zero space for an allegation of fraud in the Constitutional Presidential election of December 14, 2020.

As far as the 51 elections which occurred on November 3, 2020, they may very well have been rife with fraud, but since the appointment power of the 50 State Legislatures (535) and Congress (3) is plenary, that’s a problem for those legislatures to deal with should they choose to do so.

[Vermont Lt]

You are trying to use facts and reason against a cult. Silly rabbit…LOL

[DMZFrank]

The section that you cite was an amendment to the electoral Count Act of 1877, and this revision occurred in DECEMBER of 2022, almost 2 years after the events of January 6, ostensibly to clarify what heretofore had not been clarified, according to many constitutional scholars and attorneys. Apparently this was supposed to make certain that which was not universally agreed to be so.

It is possible that this amendment, if constitutionally challenged at some future date, may not hold up to scrutiny by the SCOTUS. The constitution does not declare that the president of the senate’s role is merely ministerial, as no other duty in the constitution is deemed to be so.

[kvanbrunt2]

Point being he has to accept what the states provided him as acceptable. It’s the STATES responsibility to make sure the electors and results are correct.>>. and if they are not he will need to arbitrate the result. and thank you clarifying this crap that many people have about the job on the 6th. the job had to be done with the legislatures long before the 6th. The sixth is the deadline to get the job done.

[Vendome]

Zactly

[Third Person]

your is not you’re

or maybe try “ur”

probably will work either way for the regular folk

easy!

[Ancesthntr]

Hey there, genius: that law was modified in 2022. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Reform_and_Presidential_Transition_Improvement_Act_of_2022

Note that this was AFTER the 2020 “election” fiasco. It was pushed through by members of both parties who hated and/or feared Donald Trump, and who never wanted another “election” challenged. You cannot quote the subsequently-modified law as if it was in effect at the time of the “election “ in question, or on 1/6/21.

You can like or dislike Trump or Pence, as you see fit - those are your opinions. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

[Dr. Franklin]

Pence is a dick but your either for the Constitution and the laws or your not.

The issue is this: Is the 2022 law you cite constitutional? Can the Congress tie the VP's hands to reject obviously fraudulent election returns, i.e., electors awarded in an election where more ballots were tallied than voters who voted, (as happened with Pennsylvania's 2020 election) or where the election laws were clearly violated, (as subsequently adjudged by the Wisconsin Supreme Court for the 2020 Election)? Since the VP's powers are outlined in the Constitution, how can a statute limit those powers?

[RitaOK]

Wrong.

I.

The Ammendment you cite was was not in effect on the J6 behavior that Pious Pense exhibited in denying the several states who were objecting on behalf of the people’s sure evidence of fraudulent ballots and counting and procedures in their state.

II.

IF PENCE HAD NO POWER TO GRANT A TEN DAY DELAY for investigation of FRAUD to those states, WHY WOULD THIS AMMENDMENT BE CREATED?

It was because Pence as presider had the DUTY to respect state’s right to OBJECT AND reasonable time to PROVE A FRAUDULENT ELECTION HAD IN DEED OCCURRED, in the respective states, prior to 20 January.

III.

PENCE LIED when repetitively saying PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTED PENCE TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION.

President Trump always asked for an investigation, not an overthrow.

[freeandfreezing]

You are citing the law as it was amended subsequent to the 2020 election.

Historically the Senate and the House have debated and either accepted or rejected electors designated by states.

For example see the presidential election of 1876.

1876 Election

[frog in a pot]

Point being he has to accept what the states provided him as acceptable.

That is incorrect. You may have overlooked the word "solely".

With regard to the provision you cite: "The President of the Senate shall have no power to solely determine, accept, reject, or otherwise adjudicate or resolve disputes..."(etc.)

What you do not mention is that Pence had the authority to recognize correct and formal written objections from members of congress that addressed the votes of electors. It is my understanding he held such objections.

There was on Jan6 substantial credible evidence of election corruption. Pense, as a the second highest leader of the R party should have made an effort to see the R members of Congress had an opportunity to confront the various states with that evidence. That, after all, is what the Session is about. It appears, however, that he sat on his hands.

And, coincidentally, it was probably why Pelosi appears to have been anxious to see chaos.

[caddie]

I call BS on your post. There's nothing "ministerial" here below or in any of our laws. Pence had a duty and he shirked it.

Nice try, Rat.

3 U.S.C. United States Code, 2014 Edition Title 3 - THE PRESIDENT CHAPTER 1 - PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS AND VACANCIES Sec. 15 - Counting electoral votes in Congress From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov §15. Counting electoral votes in Congress Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o'clock in the afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall be their presiding officer. Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A; and said tellers, having then read the same in the presence and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the votes as they shall appear from the said certificates; and the votes having been ascertained and counted according to the rules in this subchapter provided, the result of the same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall thereupon announce the state of the vote, which announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the Journals of the two Houses. Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified. If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State. But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted. When the two Houses have voted, they shall immediately again meet, and the presiding officer shall then announce the decision of the questions submitted. No votes or papers from any other State shall be acted upon until the objections previously made to the votes or papers from any State shall have been finally disposed of. (June 25, 1948, ch. 644, 62 Stat. 675.) Counting of Electoral Votes 2013—Pub. L. 112–228, §1, Dec. 28, 2012, 126 Stat. 1610, provided that: "The meeting of the Senate and House of Representatives to be held in January 2013 pursuant to section 15 of title 3, United States Code, to count the electoral votes for President and Vice President cast by the electors in December 2012 shall be held on January 4, 2013 (rather than on the date specified in the first sentence of that section)." 2009—Pub. L. 110–430, §2, Oct. 15, 2008, 122 Stat. 4846, provided that: "The meeting of the Senate and House of Representatives to be held in January 2009 pursuant to section 15 of title 3, United States Code, to count the electoral votes for President and Vice President cast by the electors in December 2008 shall be held on January 8, 2009 (rather than on the date specified in the first sentence of that section)." 1997—Pub. L. 104–296, §2, Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3558, provided that: "The meeting of the Senate and House of Representatives to be held in January 1997 pursuant to section 15 of title 3, United States Code, to count the electoral votes for President and Vice President cast by the electors in December 1996 shall be held on January 9, 1997 (rather than on the date specified in the first sentence of that section)." 1989—Pub. L. 100–646, Nov. 9, 1988, 102 Stat. 3341,

[DiogenesLamp]

3 U.S. Code § 15 - Counting electoral votes in Congress

Statute law can have no effect on the Constitution. The constitution is supreme, and congress cannot modify or change it by passing legislation.

Point being he has to accept what the states provided him as acceptable.

Not correct. He could say "I shall not be any part of this corrupt farce." And walk out. There isn't a legal thing they can do to him, he would have put the corrupt Biden regime in the correct historical light of being illegitimate and corrupt, he would have been a hero, and the world would be a better place.

Instead he decided to be a cowardly bitch who went along to get along and now he's worse than dirt.

And he will forever remain the stupid bitch who blew his chance at historical significance.

[Political Junkie Too]

This is the link to the law as it existed in January 2021.

The two most glaring changes that were made in 2022 are:

1. Adding the section that "the role of the President of the Senate while presiding over the joint session shall be limited to performing solely ministerial duties"
2. Changing the requirement to contest an electoral college vote from "signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives" to "is signed by at least one-fifth of the Senators duly chosen and sworn and one-fifth of the Members of the House of Representatives duly chosen and sworn"

Congress changed contesting Electoral College votes from one member of each chamber to 20 Senators and 87 Representatives to contest a state's electors.

Original Text (formatted by me for clarity):

Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o’clock in the afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall be their presiding officer.

Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes,

which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A;

and said tellers, having then read the same in the presence and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the votes as they shall appear from the said certificates;

and the votes having been ascertained and counted according to the rules in this subchapter provided, the result of the same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall thereupon announce the state of the vote,

which announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the Journals of the two Houses.

Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received.

When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified.

If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State;

but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law;

and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State.

But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted. When the two Houses have voted, they shall immediately again meet, and the presiding officer shall then announce the decision of the questions submitted. No votes or papers from any other State shall be acted upon until the objections previously made to the votes or papers from any State shall have been finally disposed of.

-PJ