Posted on 07/31/2023 5:07:40 PM PDT by rod5591
When a city has a river flowing through it, they likely know the average current of the water. Above a certain level it is suicidal to try to swim it for any reason. And the police are likely trained about and know it for a fact.
Sure, if they have a long pole or one with a rope attached to it handy, or even a flotation device, they can attempt a rescue that way. But that is typically unlikely.
So jumping in to save a person is not only reckless, but likely to risk the officer’s life as well.
Getting near a drowning person can be deadly for both. This guy would be alive if he did have such a s***head for a mother. How does that sit?
Relatives should be glad that the police didn't start taking "pot-shots" at the man as he floundered in the water.
Regards,
payday for a family that wouldn’t do enough to keep their loved one off drugs,
You know nothing about drugs alcohol or what families can or cannot do.
His name is now Bob.
That statement I made is not a blanket statement towards the families of addicts, but IS is a blanket statement towards families that would sue someone or something for the death of their family member in situations that are like this one.
It was meant in context, and you took that statement out of context.
That said, you know nothing about me, and you know absolutely nothing about my family history. If you did, you would be embarrassed to have made that type of statement. That is a completely ignorant thing to say to someone when you don’t know.
Because I DO know. And after reading your post, probably far, FAR better than YOU do.
One more thing-and I say this because I really don’t want to get crosswise with you. I have always been able to engage in civil discourse with you, and have enjoyed it.
That said I do have a flaw in my view of this, and that is, I made the unconscious assumption that the family knows things that I do, and that their lawsuit is spurious. And that is a mistake on my part.
I happen to know what can happen in a body of water choked with vines or other entangling things, as this one apparently was, and I assumed erroneously the family has the same knowledge of this that I have, and very possibly, those police officers had.
When I was aboard the USS Eisenhower back in 1978, our sister squadron lost a plane over the side on launch due to a catapult malfunction or incorrect setting.
We call that a “cold cat shot”. Basically, there is not enough power to launch the plane for some reason, and the plane leaves the flight deck and goes into the water.
In this case, the pilot ejected, and landed in the water right near the ship which came to a full stop.
The pilot landed in the water when the carrier stopped, we could see the pilot struggling with his parachute cords. A rescue swimmer from a helicopter dropped into the water immediately to help him, but could not disentangle him. The pilot’s head came out of the water, and would disappear, again and again.
The ship put a launch over the side, and they went to assist, but even with the launch there and a rescue swimmer in the water with him, they could not disentangle him, and he kept going under. Finally, after 45 minutes or so of this, they were able to drag his sodden, motionless body into the launch.
This all happened in full view of hundreds of us on the flight deck watching in growing horror.
The last I saw was when they wheeled him through the hangar bay on a gurney, doing CPR, but he was dead, and they could not save him.
They had a professional swimmer in the water, a helo overhead, and a launch with men, all trying frantically to pull him out of the water for nearly and hour, and failed.
My mistake in all of this is to visualize this situation of a person in water full of vines, no specially trained personnel at hand (all probably fully clothed and in gear) and no way to reach the man without entering that water choked with vines that apparently were entangling with him, and knowing full well how that kind of thing will turn out...and assumed the family would know that too.
I shouldn’t have made that assumption, but if the facts are close to what was stated in the article, the cops observing this seem to have fully understood the dire risk of going into that vine choked water themselves, and warned others not to do it lest they become victims as well.
I say this because they had to call for “specialized rescue” resources as the article states.
Folks, I pinged you to my response above (where I was replying to Freeper chickensoup who called me on the carpet on what likely seemed a hard-hearted and ignorant response on my part on what can be done by a family to affect the behavior of an addict.
As I said, I do know full well (firsthand as well) the complexities and heartache of family members with addictions, and the limitations on what can actually be done to save them from themselves.
But in this type of case, I have first-hand experience seeing what happens when someone is entangled in the water and panic has set in, and the absolute best trained resources may not even be enough.
I watched that kind of thing take place with my own eyes, in a horrible, extended time frame, almost in slow motion, where the best trained people at this in the world (the US Navy rescue teams) were unable to succeed. (see my post above at #47)
Watching the desperation and futility of this kind of rescue has vividly stayed with me all these years.
I fully expect the cops looking on may well have had some inkling of this extremely unique and hazardous situation, as I expect many of those waterways in places like Tennessee not only have a current, but clots of entangling vegetation found on those places.
Which is why, I am sure, they called for “specialized” resources to attempt a rescue.
I feel the police were entirely justified in not jumping in themselves, and I have no doubt they conveyed this to bystanders who were angry they weren’t jumping in, and were probably stating they were going to do it themselves.
This isn’t police brutality or incompetence. This is likely rationality, expressed to prevent further loss of life.
In a normal legal world, I would not expect this lawsuit to have any success.
In the legal world we now live in, I fully expect a payday for the family and people to be disciplined unjustly.
Thank you for this.
For reference, here is the Navy’s summary on this event I related. (I did get the year wrong):
3 Dec 1977: AB 405, a Corsair II, LCDR Harold “Hal” Andersen of VA-72, suffered a mechanical malfunction and crashed shortly after launching from catapult No. 4. Andersen ejected and the ship launched a motor whaleboat, assisted by a Sikorsky SH-3D from HS-11, to recover him. The Sea King crew dropped a swimmer to retrieve the pilot, but Andersen apparently had become entangled in his parachute and he died from his injuries, most likely from drowning. The rescuers could not recover AB 405.
I feel very strongly about this that there will be an injustice done to these LEOs.
And I feel equally strongly that, if the description of the environment is correct, they did the right thing not going in themselves, and also discouraging others from doing so.
I just have a bad feeling about the legal outcome.
I lifeguarded as well. Basically they strongly preferred you not to get close to the other person if they were freaking out, and to basically let them pass out, and then get them and swim them back holding/cupping their chin above water. I remember the drills with the other lifeguards performing varying types of distressed people in the water.
Thanks for sharing your experience, and I'm sorry that you've had to deal with this memory of that event. No one can say for certain how things would end, if something had been done differently. As you said, others could have lost their life in trying to save a life. We've read of those sad events far too many times, ie., a father drowning after saving a child; a brother drowning while rescuing a younger sibling. It's easy to second-guess someone, especially when you've never been in that position yourself to see how you would have reacted. Thanks again for your comment, and God Bless you.
I think all of us who were trained properly agree on these issues. A drowning person has enormous strength. On Lake Michigan we split our time between standing on a perch watching shallow water and out in incredibly agile boats. Many toddlers tended to fall face first in inches of water and couldn’t get up. Out deeper from the boat usually all we had to do was give the victim the oar to hold onto. Never had to go in for a classic swimming rescue. Glad about that.
Yeah, a floatation buoy, an oar, a pole. I remember a drill using a pole and bringing them in that way.
You are most welcome. We have plenty of reason nowadays to suspect the motives and expertise of Police, but...this isn’t one of them, IMO.
I know where you are coming from and I agree.
We can hope they would. Do you think when your name comes up on patriot bingo they won’t vigorously persue you ? Give it up the PoPo are not there to protect and serve. They are there for the $.
Appreciate your information.
my response was mostly focused on the
a family that wouldn’t do enough to keep their loved one off drugs,
Which is an impossible situation for family members.
Amazing story about the loss of a pilot and the heroic efforts of many men and women to save him.
thank you
The officers had no duty to aid a person resisting arrest
Arrest resisters are notorious for instigating lawsuits against the law officers
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