Posted on 02/03/2023 6:49:10 AM PST by SeekAndFind
The Swiss-German newspaper Neue Zürcher Zeitung (NZZ) reports that Joe Biden offered Russian President Vladimir Putin 20% of Ukraine in exchange for a peace treaty. The offer was made by CIA Director William Burns during a top-secret trip to Moscow in January.
The White House is denying the specific “land for peace” offer was made but won’t deny some kind of peace offer wasn’t put forward. The story cited “high level German officials” as sources.
Both Kyiv and Moscow reportedly rejected the proposal.
The 20% offer of Ukraine’s territory is significant. It’s about the size of the disputed Donbas region in eastern Ukraine that Russia says it annexed last September. The region has a majority Russian population and is currently ravaged by civil war.
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky has been adamant that Donbas is Ukrainian territory and the war won’t end until all Ukrainian territory seized by Moscow — including Crimea — was recovered.
From
Kyiv reportedly shut down the proposal “because they are not willing to have their territory divided” while Russian officials said they “will win the war in the long run anyway,” reported NZZ, which has been described as the Swiss newspaper of record.
Sean Davett, the deputy spokesperson at White House’s National Security Council, told Newsweek that the report from NZZ is “not accurate,” and that the CIA would say the same.
According to the news outlet the German politicians said Biden wanted to avoid a protracted war in Ukraine, and so, offered the territory as part of the peace plan.
The administration is divided over its Ukraine strategy. Some, like CIA director Burns, want to try to end the war in Ukraine quickly in order for the United States to turn its attention to China.
(Excerpt) Read more at pjmedia.com ...
Biden would start a war before turning to Trump. Perhaps a promise to dump Kamala. With her it would only get worse if that’s possible.
Any deal with Russia would mean nothing to Russia.
If he wants to give something to Russia that they really want, he should hand over George Soros.
At this point why would the Ukraine or Russia trust anything America has to say ? Though I’d imagine Zelensky would be forced to go along with Biden simply because we are sending them a ton of money.
The fact that Biden can make such deals with Ukraine’s future proves exactly EVERYTHING Russia has been saying about the true cause of this war.
Biden’s negotiating peace terms, but it’s not his war. Yea, right.
it seems simple:
1. Two areas covered by the Minsk agreement are allowed to have an independence vote.
2. Both sides abide by the result.
3. Ukraine stops cooperating with biolabs/NATO training, etc. and no NATO membership.
4. Both sides agree to have an independent source they agree to resolve disputes.
5. Russia holds Crimea.
Anything else is peripheral.
Do thr Rusdian tourists have to leave the Minsk territories before the referendum? Do the people who fled the Donbas (whether into Russia or into Ukraine and Europe) get a vote?
Will that German election monitor get another opportunity to vote for annexation?
Will that ballot counting Vatnik who was on a Rusdian news report doing a robotic hand count be returning for duty duty sticking obviously unused, unmarked ballot sheets into the Yes pile?
If none of that can be answered properly then Ukraine has no incentive whatsoever to adopt the neutrality or accept Demilitarisation.
If they won’t accept neutrality Russia won’t honor the deal.
So it all comes back to, why would Ukraine sign its own death warrant without getting any security guarantees woth the paper they’re written on.
It’d be lije Budapest Memorandum and Minsk 1 all over again. Everyone signs it, Putin ignores it and if pushed comes out with some cockamamie excuse like “we were never in Ukraine, Wagner was, so we don’t have to do anything.”
“destroying the rule-based peace order”
And what exactly are those rules?
“Will that German election monitor get another opportunity to vote for annexation?”
Not a German, they aren’t trustworthy. An Iraqi would be better. That people finger dye.
All peace negotiations that end war involve give and take that both sides decide they can live with.
But any of them are better than escalating into WWIII with tens of millions dead (WWI ~40 million died, WWII ~75 million died).
Not to mention yet one more endless war.
As of the 2001 census, ethnic Ukrainians were 56.9% of the population in Donetsk province and 58% in Luhansk province, while ethnic Russians were 38.2% in Donetsk and 39.1% in Luhansk.
The proportion of the population which said Russian was their native language was higher--74.9% in Donetsk and 68.8% in Luhansk. So many Russian-speakers considered themselves Ukrainians.
Of course the percentages are probably different since the Russian invasion.
If he were in office, this war would have never happened.
Who doubts that?
But... a liberal/Democrat war is always a good war according to the MSM (NYTs, Time, MSNBC, CNN...). So Biden has nothing to worry about. They will practice 24/7 Democrat party and liberal philosophy apologetics.
Actually no.
They by in large held to the agreements, it is us that have violated them and withdrawn from them, repeatedly, publicly, historically documented... You're reinterpreting history by over reaching.
Absolute power corrupts... We have become an absolute power in a post Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact world, and especially before the rise of the PRC.
We do not care about the agreements we made and if you look at how we are dealing with Taiwan vs. Ukraine, it is very telling about us.
Maybe it's the fact that we have high turn over in our bureaucracy which has become politicized, or the democratic process where the promises of the predecessor are not a concern for the new guy. Maybe it's a consequence of greed and an oligopolistic economy where government represents the interests of huge multinational firms and financial institutions. But one thing is for sure, if you want to understand us, just read Machiavelli's “The Prince.”
The era where we were the “good guys” representing freedom and liberty, a democratic process, human rights, transparency (all slogans of the past)... as in the Cold War are long gone. Our #1 trade partner is the PRC, we prop up regimes in Saudi Arabia and Jordan, violate our own Constitution without consequence to those doing it, mass censor, mass psyop our own people, and claim we're the good guys because we let someone else do the kidnapping, torture or assignation for us.
But let me ask you this. Without conjuring up some imaginary Cold War boogieman threat picture, what is the direct national security interest to us in Ukraine?
BTW, I can provide figures regards the ethnic Russian population and their percentages that are very different.
Ah, so it boils down to countries like Georgia, Chechnya, Belarus and Ukraine choosing between
1. being crushed by Russia for resisting
2. being crushed by a dictatorship after surrendering their freedom to Russia, and
3. having the world dragged into a nuclear war by a petulant rogue nation simply because it didn’t get a free run at occupying a twelfth time zone.
If Russia gets its win then it’s open season all over the planet. Big nations invading their smallest neighbors knowing that the superpowers have no interest at all in stopping them if it means they end up fighting each other’s allies.
Hardly an end to proxy warfare, is it? Sorry end to that post-WW2 vision of a world where only assholes need empires.
Biden’s own democrat base is getting very restless. Believe it or not, many democrats want an end to the war. If I had to guess, it’s likely a “planted” story that is completely FALSE. Biden’s handlers wanted this war and did everything they could to make it happen. Biden’s WH has received a lot of criticism for not trying to broker peace. So, presto! This story appears. Russia has been calling for peace negotiations many times throughout the war.
If this story was real I think the war would be over.
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