Posted on 01/23/2023 2:05:28 PM PST by dennisw
Europe to send modern armoured vehicles as Russia prepares new mobilisation
Kyiv and allies have been calling on Germany to send Leopard 2 battle tanks Germany has been reluctant, but foreign minister has signalled shift if position
Germany would not block Poland sending its Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine, its foreign minister said, in a blow for Putin and his invading forces.
Ukrainian officials have been calling on Western allies to supply them the modern German-made armour for months, but Germany has held back from sending them or allowing other Nato countries to do so.
In apparent shift, Annalena Baerbock said her government would not block Poland if it were to send its Leopard 2 tanks — although Poland's prime minister later said Warsaw would seek Berlin's sign-off.
Leopard tanks, used by an array of Nato countries but whose transfer to Ukraine requires Berlin's sign-off, are seen by defence experts as the most suitable heavy battle tanks for Ukraine's needs — as Russia prepares for a new mobilisation.
German officials 'know how important these tanks are' and 'this is why we are discussing this now with our partners', she said.
Germany has been under heavy pressure to let Leopards go to Ukraine but the Social Democrat party of Chancellor Olaf Scholz is traditionally sceptical of military involvement and wary of sudden moves that could trigger Russian escalation.
Ms Baerbock's remarks appeared to go further than Scholz's comments at a summit in Paris on Sunday that all decisions on weapons deliveries would be made in co-ordination with allies, including the United States.
Ukraine says the heavily armoured battle tanks would give its ground troops more mobility and protection ahead of a new Russian offensive expected in coming months, and could give them the firepower they need to regain the momentum.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
I agree, the only difference now is the TYPE of weapons.
But if the argument was that ‘sending this will lead to a bigger war’, we are now past that point. Sending US made armored vehicles and NATO tanks doesn’t leave much left, as far as TYPE of weapons.
I’m speculating that from the Russian point of view , since we are now showing no restraint, is there a downside to hitting these bases in Poland? One surprise attack takes a lots of new stuff. Not an attack on a city, but hitting these staging areas at the border. What’s our next move?
What if the Russians call our bet?
What are we going to do then that we are not doing now?
Bite them?
From observation, I am going to venture the Russians have not shown great competency in combined arms. Seems like if they had, this would have been over last spring.
We havent sent them fighter jets, capable of crossing into Russian airspace and taking an offensive war into Russia. And you are now going to point out the attacks on air bases in Russia by drones, to which I would just say you dont fight off a bully by tying one hand behind your back.
Wow! Someone in the Ukraine-Russia War discussion actually read some history about the region! Well Done Sir!
Another steaming pile of propaganda brought to you by the Daily Mail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9MMPHd8Bwk
Update on Russian-Ukrainian conflict for January 23, 2023
- Russian forces are reportedly advancing in Zaporozhye while Ukraine continues losing ground around Bakhmut;
- Russian pushes in Zaporozhye could be (1) recon in force, (2) extending existing security zone ahead of actual Russian front line or (3) spoiling attacks on forces assembling for a future offensive;
- Ukrainian losses are severe and Reuters is reporting on supposed warnings by the US to Ukraine about going on the offensive; - Weapon shipments have been announced for Ukraine including a significant US DoD package, as well as all of Denmark’s Caesar self-propelled howitzers and all of Estonia’s FH-70 towed howitzers;
So will George Soros.
Shush. You’ll ruin the REMF Keyboard Klackers’ fun.
Hopefully its just europe that gets nuked.
Poland to ask for Berlin’s permission to deliver German-made tanks to UkrainePrime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said Poland would still look to send tanks as part of ‘a small coalition’ if Berlin denies the request.
BY WILHELMINE PREUSSEN
JANUARY 23, 2023 12:20 PM CET
Poland will officially ask Berlin for permission to deliver German-made Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said Monday.
“We will apply for such permission,” Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said during a press conference, without specifying the exact timing of the official request.
The Polish leader’s announcement follows German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock’s remarks on Sunday, signaling that Germany would not stand in Poland’s way if the country were to ask to send tanks to Ukraine.
“I have understood just how important these tanks are,” Baerbock said in an interview with French television. Baerbock’s statement offered a “glimmer of hope,” Morawiecki said.
However, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s spokesperson suggested on Monday that Baerbock’s remarks had not represented an agreed government position. Any upcoming Polish request for sending Leopard tanks would have to be first discussed and decided by the German Security Council, a reduced cabinet formation involving Scholz, Baerbock as well as a few other ministers. There are “agreed procedures,” spokesperson Steffen Hebestreit said, seemingly suggesting that Baerbock had voiced her own opinion instead of a government line.
However, if Germany denies the request, Poland will still be looking to hand over the tanks as part of a “small coalition,” the Polish prime minister said.
[...]
MiGs to Ukraine
In the early days of the conflict, in February 2022, Poland announced that it would send it's fleet of MiG-29 jets to Ramstein AFB and Ukranian pilots would fly them to Ukraine.
Poland was informed that the planes would not be transferred either to the United States or to a USAF base in Germany for delivery to Ukraine. Left with the alternative to deliver the planes from Poland to Ukraine, and with Ukranian pilots coming to fly them, Poland called the whole thing off.
If the tanks go the Ukraine it is easier for the Ruskies to capture them and ship them back to Russia.
Are the Poles sending spare parts and training aids, etc? It’s going to take weeks if not months to train new tankers. May as well dump them into the ocean than turn them loose with green crews.
France 24 is reporting Poland is getting rid of it’s old tanks in anticipation of getting new one from the US.
Slovakia thinks it has a workaround against Biden, to get some MiGs to Ukraine.
Trump wanted Ukraine to get those Poland MiGs, but Biden blocked them.
“”France 24 is reporting Poland is getting rid of it’s old tanks in anticipation of getting new one from the US.””
Yep, NATO, the U.S., and other allies are cleaning out the old and buying the completely new and also the modern versions of the old.
They are shifting funding from replacing and storing outdated weapons/weapons systems and replacing them with more modern weapons that do the same job, but better.
35,000 of these have been produced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornet
Zelensky says a few dozen tanks will make no difference as Russia still has thousands.
At most Poland can ship 100 tanks if they’re willing to be naked until Abrams and K2s arrive...along with the supply chain and training and tactical integration.
Otherwise look for two companies...28 tanks at best.
Scour the rest of Western Europe and you might get the number up to 100+.
With no real supply and maintenance chain.
Annalena Baerbock Had a grandpa in the Nazi army on the eastern front. Of course she approves of this. Anyway, they’ll all get blown up in short order just like the 6500 tanks they started the war with.
US M1’s are arriving in Poland as we speak. Large shipments of US vehicles have recently arrived in northern Europe. Poland’s agreement with the US was for 250 M1A2 sep3 tanks as backfill for their Leopards and 100 M1A1 that the Poles would use as backfill for their T72 variants.
Timing is uncertain but all the Polish Leopards should be available for transfer this year.
Ukrainians have been training in Poland for a while on both Challenger and Leopard.
What 6500 tanks?
I called you out on that yesterday. But you are still posting like an automaton. A propaganda mechanism.
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