Huge blow for Putin as Germany says it WON'T block Poland sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine:

DesertRhino You’re from Poland... just stop meathead. Those jokes about you guys didn’t just fall outta the sky.

Is that the best you can do?

I've been in Poland since 2010, and have dual citizenship now, but nope, no Polish ancestry, not an iota.

You do realize that the origin of those jokes were because in the 19th century the lower educated members of Polish society migrated to the USA which led to those stereotypes. The Chopins, the Mickiewicz's, Sienkiewicz', Boleslaw Prus' didn't migrate - or they stayed in the friendlier Austrian partition of Poland

And Joseph COnrad was Polish as was Marie Curie

So your silly remark just belies your own lack of knowledge

And desertRhino — if you look at Russian propaganda in

The USA it is always the same: Oh, this was due to NATO “expansion”, Poor Russia (the largest country in the world) felt surrounded, there is Russophobia OR this is bad for the west’s economy, give up Ukraine.

internally to Russia (and you can see this in TASS, in Russia media) it is Ukraine never existed, only Russia; they are Nazis, not the little Russians , etc. etc.

If you look at newspapers from South Africa, India etc. it is “Russia is fighting against the imperialists. Ignore that we are trying to recreate our imperium in Ukraine”, or “This is Russian land, the west is trying to take it away, like they do to you”

“but the nazi element in Ukraine calls the tune.”

The President of Ukraine is a Jew

The Prime Minister of Ukraine is a Jew

The defense minister was a Jew

The easiest way to debunk such craziness is to ask yourself if a Nazi nation of would elect a Jewish president? Zelensky was elected by 70% of the vote in Ukraine.

The ones you label Nazis - Azov = They got less than 1% in the last elections, not surprisingly, and have no representation in Parliament.

The problen, Reily, is that the statement was incorrect - firstly, Poland didn't invade Slovakia, secondly the timelines are all wonky

it's just like the common refrain that "ukraine was always a part of Russia"

here is the European map of 1600

And in 1700

Ukraine was a border country between the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth (not "Poland"), the Tsardom of Muscowy (not "Russia" yet, not until 1721) and the Ottomans (not "Turkey")

Ukraine as well as the Tsardom of Muscowy as well as the Commonwealth were the target of slave raids by the Crimean Tatars (not the Turks per se - they just bought the slaves when they were sent from Crimea south)

While right-bank Ukraine belonged to the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth until late 1793, left-bank Ukraine had been incorporated into Tsardom of Russia in 1667 (under the Treaty of Andrusovo). In 1672, Podolia was occupied by the Turkish Ottoman Empire, while Kyiv and Braclav came under the control of Hetman Petro Doroshenko until 1681, when they were also captured by the Turks, but in 1699 the Treaty of Karlowitz returned those lands to the Commonwealth.

Most of Ukraine fell to the Russian Empire under the reign of Catherine the Great; in 1793 right-bank Ukraine was annexed by Russia in the Second Partition of Poland.

However, the Ukrainians are a separate East Slavic people - distinct from Muscowy. Just as the Slovaks differ from the Czechs

Moscow tried to assimilate them - and when they did so through culture, they were mildly successful, but when they imposed forced Russification from the 1870s, especially the crushing of the Uniate Church, they pushed people to feeling the sense of "other". This was especially the case under the Soviets - Stalin (a Georgian!) imposed Russification on the Soviets. Think of it this way - France in 1780 had only 10% speaking French i.e. Parisian dialect; Italy in 1850 had a similar number speaking Italian i.e. the Milanese dialect. Sicilian is not mutually intelligible with standard Italian, and Breton is a separate language. But the people took up French and Italian due to cultural pressures and most do not have the aim to set up a separate state. This could have happened in Eastern Europe in the 1800s, but hamfisted actions made people pull further apart and today they are separate nations.

Yes, I know all of this.

If you go back far enough all these countries were nipping at each other’s borders, e.g. 30 Years War, “Time of Troubles - Russia”, various wars with the Ottomans- who had Christian vassal states who had to contribute militarily, etc. I could go on! That’s how I interrupted his statement.

Ok he wasn’t as accurate as I implied. However, it was more historically insightful than hurling Nazi Nazi around which is what most people do that discuss this. That was my point. I apologize for making it clumsily!

Actually, Poland did invade “Slovakia*” in 1938.

“In 1938 Poland pursued its own territorial claims, and gave an ultimatum to the Czechoslovak government, which resulted in the annexation of the Zaolzie* region which in fact had a Polish majority”

* A border area that separated Czech lands from Slovakia.

I vaguely remembered this; had to look up the details.

And they had been taking “whacks” at each other for some time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts

Nobody had sparkling clean hands! Europe has centuries of conflict leaving dislikes to ancient hatreds.

True.

Have you read William L Shirer’s “the rise and fall of Nazi Germany”?

I picked it up again a few days ago to read the chapters on the Anschluss and the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia. And, yes, it seems like P and friends just did a copy-paste in their actions and even accusations :)

I read about, how, in 1938 the American ambassador to Berlin was told that “Czechoslovakia is trying to provoke a pan-European war and must be stopped.”

And Goering a few days later calling the Czechs “This miserable pygmy race is oppressing a cultured people”

"Different war."

No, the Forever War is Iraq, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, the Ukraine, and all of the "special" operations between and during.

Why America Can't End Its 'Forever Wars'
BY WILLIAM M. ARKIN ON 04/12/21 AT 6:00 AM EDT
In our topsy-turvy world, the United States today is killing or bombing in perhaps 10 different countries. Some we know for sure: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen. Some occasionally are acknowledged—Libya, Niger, Mali and Uganda. Others are more obscure—Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Chad, Lebanon, Nigeria. And still others—the Philippines, Central African Republic, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Kenya, Thailand—are alluded to in fleeting news reports or hinted at in military deployments and supposed war games with host nation forces.
Source https://www.newsweek.com/why-america-cant-end-its-forever-wars-1582749

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