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Huge blow for Putin as Germany says it WON'T block Poland sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine:
FOR MAILONLINE ^ | 23 January 2023 | CHRIS JEWERS

Posted on 01/23/2023 2:05:28 PM PST by dennisw

Europe to send modern armoured vehicles as Russia prepares new mobilisation

Kyiv and allies have been calling on Germany to send Leopard 2 battle tanks Germany has been reluctant, but foreign minister has signalled shift if position

Germany would not block Poland sending its Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine, its foreign minister said, in a blow for Putin and his invading forces.

Ukrainian officials have been calling on Western allies to supply them the modern German-made armour for months, but Germany has held back from sending them or allowing other Nato countries to do so.

In apparent shift, Annalena Baerbock said her government would not block Poland if it were to send its Leopard 2 tanks — although Poland's prime minister later said Warsaw would seek Berlin's sign-off.

Leopard tanks, used by an array of Nato countries but whose transfer to Ukraine requires Berlin's sign-off, are seen by defence experts as the most suitable heavy battle tanks for Ukraine's needs — as Russia prepares for a new mobilisation.

German officials 'know how important these tanks are' and 'this is why we are discussing this now with our partners', she said.

Germany has been under heavy pressure to let Leopards go to Ukraine but the Social Democrat party of Chancellor Olaf Scholz is traditionally sceptical of military involvement and wary of sudden moves that could trigger Russian escalation.

Ms Baerbock's remarks appeared to go further than Scholz's comments at a summit in Paris on Sunday that all decisions on weapons deliveries would be made in co-ordination with allies, including the United States.

Ukraine says the heavily armoured battle tanks would give its ground troops more mobility and protection ahead of a new Russian offensive expected in coming months, and could give them the firepower they need to regain the momentum.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
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To: 2banana
this in wikipedia:

In April 2015, Welt am Sonntag claimed that tungsten (wolfram) rounds used in Leopard 2 cannot penetrate the Russian T-90 or the modernized version of the T-80. They also stated that the German military will develop a new improved round, but it will be exclusively developed for the Leopard 2A7 in development.

Follows a pattern of Ukraine getting all NATO older stuff. Every old Soviet tank still in use in Europe has already been shipped to Ukraine many months ago.

Its an escalation, for sure, but of questionable military impact

But you can be SURE big $$$ will be spent on re-arming Europe and US. Buy defense stocks.

21 posted on 01/23/2023 2:20:56 PM PST by PGR88
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To: TonyinLA

Daily Maul giving Zelenksy a huge blow.


22 posted on 01/23/2023 2:21:10 PM PST by rfp1234 (E Porcibus Unum )
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To: pierrem15

Thanks, in a well trained force, I am sure combined arms are quite effective, I just wanted to know if the Ukrainians will be able to use these effectively, or if they will just become burning coffins like the russian tanks seem to have become.


23 posted on 01/23/2023 2:21:49 PM PST by Magnum44 (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic... )
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To: rellic

And the Ukraine and Lithuania suffered under Polish rule. And Poland invaded and occupied parts of Slovakia right before WWII. Every country in Europe has grievances against its neighborhoods.

The USSR disappeared in 1990s.


24 posted on 01/23/2023 2:22:06 PM PST by 2banana (Common ground with islamic terrorists-they want to die for allah and we want to arrange the meeting)
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To: 2banana

Those were my thoughts. Leaving the question, will the Ukrainians make good use of these?


25 posted on 01/23/2023 2:23:28 PM PST by Magnum44 (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic... )
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To: Bernard
“ Too bad nobody wants to send negotiators to arrange a peace treaty. Just weapons.”

Yes! Where are the peacemakers? Why are so many people so bent on continuing this war? I’ve been told for many years that war is bad, evil, women and children are the hardest hit, it silences the heart beats of so many mothers sons and daughters. So why is everyone silent on that point now???!!!
26 posted on 01/23/2023 2:24:24 PM PST by The Louiswu (- .-. ..- -- .--. / ..--- ----- ..--- ....-)
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To: 2banana

The Russians have stated that they’ll destroy any weapon systems that the US and NATO sends to the Ukraine.


27 posted on 01/23/2023 2:24:42 PM PST by Tom Tetroxide
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To: livius

Biden like Schwab and Soros WANT war! Excuse for the great reset!!


28 posted on 01/23/2023 2:25:56 PM PST by Kaiser8408a (z)
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To: dennisw

This is simply provoking a direct conflict between NATO and Russia. Stupidity reigns supreme it would seem, but we all know the Commie EU would love nothing more than a big war to get rid of a bunch of useless eaters and pave the way the world order. They’re all in on it. Keep cheerleading your own demise though, it suits you.


29 posted on 01/23/2023 2:26:26 PM PST by Bulwyf
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To: Tom Tetroxide

“they’ll destroy any weapon systems that the US and NATO sends to the Ukraine.”


With this escalation by Poland, what good reason do the Russians have for not attacking supply depots in Poland itself?

Seems like they’ve now become a combatant.


30 posted on 01/23/2023 2:35:03 PM PST by Not_Who_U_Think
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To: Not_Who_U_Think

Anybody who has sent anything to Ukraine would be a combatant by your definition. Lots of nations have provided arms, the only thing different now is the type.


31 posted on 01/23/2023 2:38:54 PM PST by Magnum44 (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic... )
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To: dennisw

The russians will destroy the tanks in no time.


32 posted on 01/23/2023 2:46:26 PM PST by minnesota_bound (Need more money to buy everything now)
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To: livius

Poland wants to send Ukraine more weapons so Ukraine can defend itself from Putin’s invasion


33 posted on 01/23/2023 2:47:27 PM PST by Cronos
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To: minnesota_bound

As Patton preached and implemented, unless you’re on desert flats with long visibility, you need aggressive infantry patrolling in advance of tanks.


34 posted on 01/23/2023 2:48:45 PM PST by nascarnation (Let's go Brandon!)
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To: Bernard

The Ukrainians, Baltics, French etc have sent negotiators to arrange a peace treaty.

But Putin refuses to talk unless Ukraine gives up their land that he claims


35 posted on 01/23/2023 2:49:07 PM PST by Cronos
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To: Magnum44
The Ukrainians have been quite good at adapting, such as developing their own digital apps for sending coordinates to artillery in real time. The German tanks will have notably superior optics, rangefinders and main gun range on their Russian opponents.

Training and logistics will obviously be a big deal, although the Leopards have removable power packs that can be swapped out and the engine returned to depot for servicing. My guess is many of the other components like comms are similar or the same as other NATO countries, as there are simply a limited number of suppliers. The thermal optics on Abrams, for example, are made under license from Thales.

36 posted on 01/23/2023 2:49:41 PM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: dennisw

LOL, that’s might white of Germany.


37 posted on 01/23/2023 2:50:10 PM PST by McGruff (Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f*** things up - Barack Obama)
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To: livius
It’s not a huge blow, it’s a provocation.

The provocation was the Russian invasion. Everything flows from that. The Russian cannot complain at any efforts to held the Ukrainians defend themselves.

Why does Biden want WW III and why are the Poles being dragged into it?

You should ask the Russians why they want it. The started this?

38 posted on 01/23/2023 2:50:43 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Not_Who_U_Think
With this escalation by Poland, what good reason do the Russians have for not attacking supply depots in Poland itself?

Poland would be quite happy for Russia to do so, as then NATO would be directly involved.

Technically you're not a co-belligerent unless your forces are directly involved or your territory is used to launch attacks. Belarus is a co-belligerent because is allows Russia to launch attacks from its soil.

39 posted on 01/23/2023 2:53:31 PM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: Not_Who_U_Think
With this escalation by Poland, what good reason do the Russians have for not attacking supply depots in Poland itself?

Bring down the wrath of the entire NATO coalition. Even the Russians are not that stupid.

40 posted on 01/23/2023 2:55:56 PM PST by Petrosius
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