Posted on 01/21/2023 9:34:21 PM PST by Nextrush
This was the moment at which we began the unstoppable descent into terrible danger which so many of us will bitterly regret in times to come.
I won't waste time here going over the question of who started the Ukraine war, or even why. Most people don't want to know and refuse to think about it, or look up the facts. They defame and abuse anyone who tries to tell them. So to hell with that. I'm bored with trying.
The Government claims to be in favour of free debate in universities, so all the stage army of "Right-wing" thinkers and scribblers whoop with admiration that we can now perhaps discuss the transgender issue. Well and good.
But the Government and its tame thinkers are not in favour of free debate on crucial national policy...
When the Defence Secretary announced that British tanks were going to Ukraine, not one MP raised any doubts or opposed the move. Not one. To read the record of the non-debate is like reading the proceedings of some Communist fake parliament...
What we have just decided to do is to prolong and deepen the war. Maybe Ukraine's new tanks will sweep all before them. Maybe they will bog down. Maybe they will try to take Crimea. Maybe they will soon be taking part in a Victory Parade on Red Square. I don't know. But if they cross into what Russia regards at its own territory, then do not be surprised by anything which happens...
But why is Britain in this affair? I know that a lot of voters in key states in America hate Russia because their forebearers came from lands Moscow had oppressed. I know that some neo-conservative fanatics in Washington have long desired to dismantle Russia and ensure that is never an important...
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
14 more? What did they do with the 6500 tanks they already had? Or is that inconvenient to ask about? lol
In before the arrival of the first zombie mesmerized by incessant chants of ‘RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA’ and by the pounding of the globalists’ war drums.
Good.
Debating foreign policy is good. I’m tired of reading made up stories about the plot to destroy Russia.
You have Russia, a strategic enemy, launching a major invasion in Europe which will not be the last if anyone listens to Putin’s public statements of intent.
Russia could end this simply by not invading.
Russian success will put Putin next to Poland, and after that its Germany. Poland warned about this for years.
If you listen to many of the Russia apologists, they call for Germany to abandon NATO and to join Russia in running Eastern Europe.
Russia has demanded that NATO withdraw from ALL of the former Soviet occupied countries.
So “I know people who want to weaken Russia” is not a valid explanation for this war.
And the fear that you must let Russia win or the world will end was repeated by the left for 50 years. As always, basing policy on nuclear blackmail would lead to a collapse of the West.
Both parties have become so deeply steeped in corruption they no longer resemble their Constitution loving forbearers. We have lost our economy, our standing as peacemakers in the world, the education of our children, our health care, and our vote. The constitution is in shambles and our political class is immoral. It is time for open warfare against our criminal oppressors.
Why don’t you read the actual discussions of security policy rather than your name calling people who haven’t even posted yet.
I seem to remember that the Democrats demanded that the USSR remove missiles from Cuba, at our doorstep. We were extremely close to nuclear war. Now the tables have turned, and the Western powers are threatening at Russia's doorstep, and we could be very close to nuclear war. We have no business provoking the bear, lest we disturb a hornet nest of pain and suffering.
Right, don’t resist Russia, engage in “open warfare” against both political parties in America.
Are you insane? Who are you planning to kill? Trump and DeSantis maybe? You did say open warfare against all of them.
I swear half of you have lost your minds.
Ah….you’ve arrived.
Hitchens is an imbecile who has been playing the “Russia is going to nuke the world” card for months. - I just can’t get beyond that...
You are exactly talking my language.
I didn’t arrive, was here 12 years before you showed up.
The Russians need to be defeated sufficiently that they leave most of Ukraine. Tsar Putin the First may say Ukraine is Russian, but neither he nor anyone thinks the absence of Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia. The only things under existential threat are Russian egos.
Works both ways, Peter.
Who the hell wants to die to save Peter Hitchens’ ass?
There are two things that differentiate Ukraine from, say, Iraq:
1. Iraqis wouldn’t fight. Ukrainians are fighting. Iraq never deserved our help. It was obviously a mistake to try to help them. You cannot help those who won’t help themselves. So, today, Iraq is a vassal state. Ef them, is what I say.
2. While Ukraine is willing to fight, they are fighting a nuclear power. If we knew appeasing Putin by slicing off a part of Ukraine, we would consider Peter Hitchens’ option of hoping Putin would be satisfied. Great Britain thought it could buy “peace in our time” by giving Hitler a piece of Czechoslovakia. Then, Hitler invaded Poland. At the behest, mainly of the two biggest chicken-sh*t countries of Europe - France and Germany - we declined to admit Ukraine into NATO to try to appease Putin. But, that didn’t work. We effectively allowed Putin to take Crimea and the two breakaway republics. But, that didn’t work either.
As to what are Putin’s goals. He made that clear (just as Hitler made his goals clear in Mein Kampf). It is to restore Imperial Russia if not the Soviet Union. This means Poland, the Baltic nations and Finland in addition to Ukraine and Belarus, and possibly also neutralizing the other countries of eastern Europe. The nations of the caucuses and those of central Asia might also be in his sites.
There was a time we turned the other way. We didn’t oppose Russia’s invasion of Hungary in 1956, nor Russia’s invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968. In those days, Russia was a superpower. Today, Russia is merely a regional power, albeit with nuclear weapons. It is assentially a big version of North Korea.
Russia, today, has client states in this hemisphere; Nicaragua and Venezuela, in addition to Cuba. Russia has an alliance with Iran, and has troops in Iran’s client state of Syria. Therefore, Russia is a threat to Israel and the Sunni Arab states. Russia supports Armenia and Armenia’s war against Azerbaijan. Russia also support Serbia, and Serbia’s meddling in Kosovo.
And, if Russia can get away with bullying others because it has nuclear weapons, what authoritarian ruler will hesitate to develop nuclear weapons? We’ll have nuclear proliferation and, as bad as the possibility of nuclear war is today, nuclear war will become inevitable.
You will notice that everywhere Russia is there is war and authoritarianism. But, Peter Hitchens thinks, why should he worry. Poland or somebody is between Russia and Great Britain will stop Russia. Maybe Germany will rearm and stop Russia. Maybe the U.S. will stop Russia.
Well, yes, Peter, the U.S. will stop Russia. We’ll stop them in Ukraine. So, you can go back to sucking on your pacifier.
BTW Let me disabuse you of the idea that Peter Hitchens is a conservative. He’s a socialist and an isolationist. He opposes all wars including WWII. Why should he worry about Putin since he wouldn’t have worried about Hitler.
It would be like we had announced the annexation of Vietnam and threatened to nuke Moscow when the Soviet Union sent arms. It's ridiculous.
Defending yourself isn’t “provoking” the bear, unless the bear is paranoid.
Here’s what Ronald Reagan said about the bear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4M-SkpvomM
Notice that, with Reagan, we defeated the Soviet Union and communism in eastern Europe by being strong, so aggression wasn’t an option for them when they fell apart. The truth is communism doesn’t work. It needs slaves and vassal countries. We just have to prevent them from expanding.
Lincoln said the same thing about slavery. His original plan wasn’t to invade the South, only to prevent slavery from being introduced into the territories.
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