How Ukraine’s offensive changes the equation for Putin and Zelensky

Washington post ^ | 12 September 2022 | David Ignatius

[Cronos]

...The initial assault toward Kherson in the south wasn’t a feint. It was a major strategic thrust that might yet push Russian troops back from the western bank of the Dnieper River. But deftly, the Ukrainians also moved in the Kharkiv region in the northeast while the Russians were asleep there. They didn’t rush the advance; they softened up Russian lines and then, last week, burst through in a devastating assault that put Russia in pell-mell retreat and regained more than 1,100 square miles of territory.

..Vladimir Putin. He is the loser in this latest round, but he is also the man who cannot be seen to lose

...Putin’s problem now is that all those television watchers in Moscow and St. Petersburg can see that the Russian leader’s non-war is a total mess. His strongest backers on the Telegram channel, and even some commentators on state television, are saying that Russian forces have suffered a severe defeat. The finger-pointing has begun in earnest, and the daggers are out for Gen. Valery Gerasimov, Russia’s chief of staff, and Sergei Shoigu, the defense minister.

But not yet for Putin, and probably not ever. That’s the beauty of the system he has created. There is no one to succeed him, almost literally. If he keeled over tomorrow, Russia’s interim leader would be Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin, a former head of the Russian Taxation Service. Have you ever heard of him? Of course not. That’s the point.

[USA-FRANCE]

Ukraine has never been a member of Nato.
And secondly, Zelensky made a major peace offering to Russia in the beginning of the war and was ready to sign a treaty in order to never join Nato ! Guess Russia’s response … “We don’t care about Nato!”, they said.

Even after Sweden and Finland got the go ahead for joining Nato to protect themselves from the wrath of the new Russian KGB-inspired empire, Putin said there was no problem with that and that countries have the right to do as they please – as long they don’t attack Russia.

So let’s stop the immense BS about Russia being displeased about the theoretical possibility of Ukraine joining Nato. That propaganda line is now debunked by everyone including Putin himself.

[Travis McGee]

"NATO has never invaded Russia."

Who were the allies of Germany during the invasion of Russia? Italian divisions, the Spanish "Condor Legion," the Scandinavian SS Viking Division, Romanian divisions, the French SS Charlemagne Division, etc etc. (Bet you didn't know that, did you?)

So just possibly expand your tiny horizon and try to understand the Russian POV for confusing NATO today for Germany and Germany's allies, in the living memory of tens of millions of Russians. Not to mention the many more millions who lost fathers, uncles, etc to the German extermination invasion.

.

Not to mention many centuries of earlier invasions from Europe.

Americans have no frame of reference for repeated bloody invasions of extermination. We have oceans on both sides and weak neighbors top and bottom. Russians look at the world slightly differently, given their history.

If you can offer a comparable national experience in the American living memory, I'm all ears.

[Travis McGee]

“Ukraine has never been a member of Nato.”

And as recently as late Feb 22, American and European and NATO leaders were still stating that Ukraine WOULD JOIN NATO.

At the same exact time while NATO was massively arming Ukraine, and had giant training bases for Ukraine’s soon-to-be NATO soldiers in W. Ukraine. (Did you miss all this? Just wake up from a coma?)

But back to the main point, which you also seem to have missed.

>>>>Once any nation joins NATO, under Article V, an attack on any NATO nation gets the full NATO counterattack.<<<

I’m sure this is going over your head, capable only of first-level grammar-school concepts. But perhaps look at the post and maps above and try to expand your 1-degree horizon a bit.

[Berlin_Freeper]

Like California doesn't have energy problems.
Enjoy your rolling blackouts Putin Stooge.

[Berlin_Freeper]

Your memes only show what a fanatical Putin Stooge you are.

You are embarrassing.

[Travis McGee]

Are you going to report me to the Amerikaner Stasi for wrong-think, mein Berliner ReichsKommissar?

Must piss you off that Americans still have freedom of speech, and the polizei are not sent out to arrest Americans over social media posts, as they do in your beloved Deutsch Reich.

But in any case, by all means stay cozy this winter.

[Berlin_Freeper]

Are you going to report me to the Amerikaner Stasi for wrong-think, mein Berliner ReichsKommissar?

How many years of drug abuse does it take to make you paranoid?
Keep spamming your stupid meme paranoid Travis McStooge so I can keep rubbing this in your rolling blackouts face:
Germany's Chancellor Scholz: 'We will make it through this winter'

[Travis McGee]

See above, Herr Berlin ReichsKommissar.

Sorry to mention, but we still have freedom of speech here in Amerika! I know this must really upset you deeply, mein ReichsKommissar.

You can’t just send out your Gestapo/Stasi polizei to have me arrested on an anonymous tip for social media “Hassrede,” like you can do in your beloved Reich.

Please stay cozy, and obey the law to keep your thermostat below 18, unless a guter Genosse Nachbar reports YOU to the Stasi!

And when the law turns to 17, and then 16, then 15, please be sure to OBEY, wie ein guter Deutscher.

[Berlin_Freeper]

It makes take decades of dope smoking to cry about free speech so you can spam the same stupid meme.

The question is Travis McStooge how many decades?

Unlike you in California, Germany has secured enough winter energy.

Enjoy your rolling power shut offs in an energy rich country - LOL!

[Berlin_Freeper]

*It must take...

[Travis McGee]

All you can do is accuse others of drug abuse?

Is that seriously the best you can do, mein Berliner ReichsKommissar?

Try to be more creative. It’s no fun smacking around an adult with the mentality of a Zurückgebliebenes Kind.

There is no sport in it. Please up your game.

[Berlin_Freeper]

You post stupid paranoid crap about me being reporting you.
Are you saying you are not a drug abusing paranoid Putin Stooge?

Did you suffer a serious head injury?

Or perhaps in some weird way only you can understand - you think you are funny?
You are not funny Travis McStooge.
Actually you are a disgusting Putin butt licker who makes stupid memes about why poor Putin baby feels threatened.

[Berlin_Freeper]

You have to be a crazy McStooge to argue the Russian invasion of Ukraine is in part justified because of the Mongols invasion in 1237.

Be sure to keep spamming that meme.
LMAO!!!

[USA-FRANCE]

You seem to have forgotten the only thing worth talking about !
Did Ukraine,,,, or did Nato in any way invade Russia ?? No-They-Didn’t!
I see no Nato or Ukrainian troops in Russia. But I see 200000 Russian troops in Ukraine!

Who is the usual suspect and aggressor here again? Yes you are right - it’s the Kremlin’s warmongering neocons from the deep-state globalist neo-soviet Russia!

Welcome back onboard with the awakened people working for nations independence fighting against neocolonialism and imperialism! We need YOU !

[Berlin_Freeper]

LOL! Great slap-down of McPutinStooge.

“...but, but.... the Mongols invaded Russia in 1247...”

[jpsb]

The English wrote most of the history books and the English hated Napoleon. But yes Napoleon successfully invaded Russian and took Moscow.

[familyop]

Thank you.

[familyop]

From my perspective, with a less formal, less orthodox (guided less by universities) study of history,...

Not all of Russia’s subject or satellite nations are primarily Slavic (Tuva, for one example), and most non-Muslim Russians don’t care much about any particular religion. A very large percentage of people in the Federation, by the way, are Muslims. Most Russians would rather have the whole world speaking Slavic (Russian), though, and serving Russia.

Now, as expressed by some on state-owned TV, many of the upper echelon Russians are mad that Putin won’t allow them to have their army invade nations other than Ukraine. Though many of them are not old enough to have been adults before the dissolution, they are frustrated by the loss of the Soviet Union. They continue to celebrate the years of the Soviet Union as their era of greatness, even though their grandparents suffered in poor living conditions back then.

During the days of the USSR, their predecessors were not satisfied with dominating the countries of the Soviet Union. They wanted more, and they did strive for more. They, like the Chinese, don’t call it empire. But that’s what they desire.

Most of those wanting a continuation of a Russia that’s more connected and friendly with other nations of the planet are younger people who enjoy or want to enjoy that kind of connectedness (friendly) along with luxuries not enjoyed by their recent ancestors.

[Cronos]

Read the article itself and tell me what you disagree about in the article.

[Cronos]

boohoo — the 1610 war was started by Muscowy a century earlier.

The 1710 war was started by Peter I invading Swedish Livonia.

The Napoleonic war was the only exception along with the Mongol.

Germany invaded its ally to prevent that ally turning first on it.