Posted on 06/12/2022 4:46:31 PM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com
THE RAPE OF THE TURIN SHROUD by William Meacham exposes that some of the Vatican/Turin Church are not friends of the SHROUD.
The only thing that would make sense really is the Holy Foreskin.
Or the GTFO…in your case
Based on comments from the other article on FR regarding the shroud I was doing some various research. One article said that somebody had a piece of foreskin claiming it to be from Jesus!
I guess Mary and Joseph knew the importance of Jesus even before He was born, but not sure they would have figured to save His foreskin. (Hmm - I wonder if His baby teeth are around?)
I don’t have the time, but I’m guessing there are certain and specific procedures for Jewish disposal of the foreskin by the Rabbi. I know that they are very particular of the cleaning and disposal of all human tissue and blood after a bombing or accident. But it probably doesn’t include asking the mom or dad “Hey - you want to keep this?”
Anyway - I thought it was interesting your comment and me reading about this other “relic”.
BTW - I believe the shroud is from Jesus. I find it to be an interesting exhibit and evidence to me that science and the spiritual world coexist.
And that the skeletal and muscular damage that is observed on the shroud fit the description of the events in the Bible. (Whipping, carrying the cross, the finger folded over due to the nail in the wrist, etc.)
I got bashed for it, but the Holy Foreskin was actually a thing during the middle ages.
I think the shroud is most likely a middle ages creation. Too many historic gaps for it to be reliable.
“I don’t need to to believe in Him, though.”
Well.... maybe you feel no such “need” at the moment, but the disparity in benefits for those who do believe vs those who don’t is so vast that it projects back upon the word “need” and imbues it with fresh gravity.
You may be perfectly well-off economically; not in “need” of additional income. Yet, presented with a legitimate avenue to a substantial additional fortune, you may be led to re-cast your usage of “need” in such a way as to support you acting to secure this additional wealth.
TECHNICALLY, you didn’t “need” it, but once you had a clear view of it, and a sure avenue of access, then there came the “need” to go get it.
If, for some reason, you thought the purported fortune wasn’t there to be had, that doubt would throttle any nascent sense of “need” to go get it, no matter how direct the means.
In the same way you have no “need” of Christ.
You sense neither the gravity of the personal doom He has averted in your behalf, nor have you any sense of his magnanimity toward you, nor do you perceive your peril in persistent unbelief, hence you feel no “need” of him.
Nonetheless, you have been spared from a judicial penalty that would have meant your personal execution by God; Christ interposed Himself to be executed in your stead.
The judicial penalty having been paid in Him, you now stand exonerated. Of the judicial penalty, that is.
For your problem — something the Bible calls “sin” — is in two aspects not merely one:
It bears not only a penalty, but consequences, also.
Likewise, forgiveness from sin is two-fold; having both a remedy for the penalty, and for the consequences.
Forgiveness of the penalty of sin was complete in Christ upon His Cross, by the grace and mercy of God. It is done; done for all, and done for all time.
What remains to you now is simply to believe this good news of Divine kindness toward you a priori, repent of your past unbelief, wrong acts and attitudes; and subscribe irrevocably to the reality of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ so you can be forgiven (and your soul healed) of the consequences of sin, and really LIVE.
“God had a dream, and He wrapped your body around it.”
— Lou Engle
There is a transcendent, Divine purpose for your existence that outshines all you’ve known, and it’s “THIS CLOSE.”
There’s a fortune there, and a direct avenue to it.
Christ’s love compels me to tell you.
So, do re-evaluate your “need.”
MY BELIEF: the Shroud of Tourin allows truthful credibility to two authority sources for faith: tradition & reason.
BASIS:
Protestantism is a form of Christianity that originating within the 16th-century Reformation. Sources of faith believe in “Sola scriptura”, meaning by scripture alone
Ephesians 2:8 confirms that faith is ultimately a gift of God. “The gift of God” in the original Greek refers back to both grace and faith earlier in the verse. Grace and faith are divine gifts. we have faith only because of the work of the Holy Spirit, then we can truly give God all the glory for our salvation. We are not to look at ourselves as better than others because we believe the gospel; rather, we are to be profoundly grateful that God has chosen to grant us faith even though we are undeserving sinners.
Sinners intellectually are able to understand the basic content of the gospel, but lack the moral ability to believe the gospel. Because, they are unwilling to turn from their sin and rest in Christ alone until the Spirit changes their hearts and enables them to heed the preaching of the gospel of God (Acts 13:13–52). Believing in Christ is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8; Acts 13:48) and NOT a reason for us to boast (1 Corinthians 4:7), as if we are better or smarter than others (1 Corinthians 1:26).
Coram Deo captures this essence of the Christian life: referencing what takes place in the presence of, or before the face of, God. Then, living Coram Deo is to OUR life in the presence of God, under the authority of God, to the glory of God. If we indeed have faith in Jesus it is because God has GIVEN us the faith to believe.
The Wesleyan Quadrilateral categorizes 4 authority sources for faith: 1) Scripture, (2) tradition, (3) reason, and (4) experience. Scripture is the PRIMARY source and standard for Christian doctrine. Tradition is experience and witness of development and growth of the faith through the past centuries in many nations and cultures. Experience is the personal understanding and use of faith in each of our own life. Reason is when the individual Christian brings discernment on the Christian faith discerning and cognizant awareness and thought.
“The Rape of the Shroud: How Christianity’s most precious relic was wrongly condemned and violated.” Meacham obviously speaks his mind, has a fascinating story to tell and does it with passion. His presence at a recent Shroud conference had the organizers so concerned, security was hired to be on hand. But he is far from being a rogue investigator. In 1983, he authored the most comprehensive study of the Shroud ever published in a peer-reviewed academic journal (Current
Anthropology).
REFERENCING: “The Rape of the Turin Shroud” By William Meacham
-critiques events surrounding the controversial 1988 carbon dating the Shroud of Turin and subsequent events.
https://www.shroud.com/pdfs/meacham%20book%20review.pdf
“Too many historic gaps for it to be reliable.”
In my recent search there was another posting about the head wrapping (the sudarium). Below is one website that popped up when I was looking for the spelling!
https://www.simplycatholic.com/face-cloth-of-jesus-burial-the-sudarium-of-oviedo/
I only skimmed down to the part where the face cloth made it’s confirmed home in about 750 AD. After all of the battles and takeovers it survived it is amazing it is around at all. And of course hard to prove its provenance with all that changing of hands.
But - the face cloth and the shroud show lots of similarities between the two. If it was a police investigation I’m guessing that the two things would be confirmed to be related, and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the shroud too would date to at least 750 AD as well.
I had to do a quick search on Jesus’s baby teeth. Numerous places claim to have His teeth! The Church of the Holy Sepulchar in Israel claims to have a tooth and the foreskin!
I did find some sites that state the foreskin is buried with respect after the ceremony. That is what I would expect based on the little I know of the Jews respect for human remains. I did not find anything regarding their views on baby teeth - but it seems like they don’t have any traditions regarding them.
I think it was Mark Twain that said something like if one gathered up all the relics of splinters of the Cross and the nails in His hands one could build a decent house!
“Too many historic gaps for it to be reliable.”
That’s OK. As we all are, you are entitled to believe or disbelieve the evidence that you have shared to arrive at your personal conclusion.
the 1988 decision Im sure was a controlled one to delegitimize those who believe
Not saying anything about its veracity. Just not proveable.
That was the quote that I was replying to. As you can see from the rest of my post, I think one could use the evidence found on the Sudarium to fill in the historic gaps of the shroud back to at least 750 AD for certain, and perhaps even farther than that depending on how good the provenance is for the Sudarium earlier than 750 AD.
“I don’t need to to believe in Him, though.”
MY TYPO ERROR:
I don’t need IT to believe in Him, though.
So do I.
I can’t get your link to work. After waiting and waiting, I always get a “this site is taking too long to repond” message. Tried several times. Then tried main site in case they had moved the article:
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/
Same thing. Any suggestions?
Link works. Just tried it. lol.
Thanks. Still won’t work for me, although having no problems with other sites. Mystery.
I feel the same way.
Thus spake n00b troll in invincible ignorance.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.