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Putin races to salvage military secrets on board sunken Moskva: Russian president 'scrambles eight-ship flotilla to wreck of Black Sea Fleet flagship to secure coding devices and unexploded missiles' as dead crew families blast Kremlin 'lies' over sinking
Daily Mail ^ | 4/23/2022 | Will Stewart

Posted on 04/23/2022 7:51:04 AM PDT by marcusmaximus

Putin has launched a major salvage operation to the wreck of the downed Black Sea Fleet flagship to secure military secrets including coding devices, unexploded missiles, and possibly even attempt to bring the bodies of dead sailors back home, naval experts have claimed.

An eight-ship salvage flotilla including Kommuna, the world's oldest active warship, and submarine has been sent to the site of the sunken Moskva 80 miles off the coast of Odessa from Sevastopol, the large naval base in Russia-annexed Crimea, according to a report by Forbes.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: accident; agitpropfromadummy; agitpropfromaloser; agitpropfrombidenbot; chechens; chechnya; clownworld; dailyfail; incompetence; isaidbudlight; maximumagitprop; mi6agitprop; moskva; noblackseaforyou; nyuknyuknyuk; putin; putinsbuttboys; putinworshippers; russia; russianaggression; soros; sorosbuttboys; sorosworshippers; swillstewart; thedailyfail; ukraine; willstewart; yousankmyazovstal; yousankmybattleship; zottherussiantrolls
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To: EEGator

It doesn’t really matter what I think
***Cool. Sumthin we can agree on.


61 posted on 04/23/2022 9:45:21 AM PDT by Kevmo (Give back Ukes their Nukes https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts)
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To: Kevmo
I never said the claim that Moskva was struck by Neptune missiles was false, just that it was sensationalized by the Daily Male, because it was.

All my comments on Moskva in particular, were made AFTER I read less known sources like The Warzone.

I never proffered the reason for the Explosion and Fire on Moskva, only that there was one. There was plenty of evidence to support that.

Emma Helfrich believes the Ukrainian reports of (apparently two) Neptune missiles striking Moskva, but she does so well into the second half of the article AFTER all the Facts and Background needed to understand the SUBJECT of the article, while noting disagreement about Russian reports. It is a more responsible way to report news, inform first, speculate second.

62 posted on 04/23/2022 9:47:41 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Celebrate Decivilization)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Glomar to the rescue


63 posted on 04/23/2022 9:59:27 AM PDT by Mouton (The enemy of the people is the media )
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To: Kevmo

Most modern warships still have steel hulls. The Moskva did.
Some newer ships, rather notoriously, had aluminum superstructures, which proved to be a bad idea (Falklands).

The real problem with really old ships is poor compartmentalisation, to limit flooding, and poor damage control.

Then there is armor, which might have saved the Moskva. Its gone out of fashion. This recovery ship though, being a Naval Auxiliary, is almost certainly not armored either.


64 posted on 04/23/2022 9:59:37 AM PDT by buwaya (Strategic imperatives )
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To: Kevmo; Navy Patriot

The conclusions that Navy Patriot stated in post#62 are very, very close to mine and what I have posted concerning this incident. Daily Mail and other sources like this sensationalize these stories rather then present them in a competent, technical and realistic assessment from a military/combat perspective. Some of the sources you want to see are likely not accessible to you and very detailed and reliable. Most of what you get in the news is 10-20% fact and the rest is conjecture.


65 posted on 04/23/2022 10:05:08 AM PDT by DarthVader (o I never thought )
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To: canuck_conservative

We don’t believe that read post#62.


66 posted on 04/23/2022 10:07:55 AM PDT by DarthVader (o I never thought )
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To: DarthVader

Instead of criticizing a source, my request is for you guys to provide sources that both sides can agree on as relatively reliable when it comes to facts.

Most of the Putinista crowd was going with the “Moskva wasn’t hit by antiship missiles, it was Russian incompetence which sank it” until recently. The thing to keep in mind was that Russia admitted it sank.

Some of the corollary info was very telling, such as the other ships in the area leaving due to being in range of antiship missiles.


67 posted on 04/23/2022 10:10:21 AM PDT by Kevmo (Give back Ukes their Nukes https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts)
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To: EEGator

More targets. Fire when Ready, Gridley...


68 posted on 04/23/2022 10:18:39 AM PDT by wetgundog (i)
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To: marcusmaximus

Sailors’ families seek answers about Russian ship sinking
By The Associated Press Updated 14 hrs ago,
April 22, 2022, 8:34 PM

It took the Russian military over a week to acknowledge that one serviceman died and two dozen others were missing after one of its flagship cruisers sank in the Black Sea, reportedly the result of a Ukrainian missiles strike.

The acknowledgment happened after families started searching desperately for their sons who, they said, served on the ship and did not come home.

Now relatives are posing sharp questions about Russia’s initial statement that the entire crew was evacuated. Russia’s Defense Ministry said Friday in a terse announcement that one crew member died and 27 went missing after a fire damaged the flagship Moskva cruiser last week, while 396 others were evacuated.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/sailors-families-seek-answers-russian-ship-sinking-84254116


69 posted on 04/23/2022 10:25:08 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Anyone, who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.!" ~ (Voltaire)!!!)
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To: Kevmo

I have something to compare it too and the technical expertise/experience in the subject matter which is why we criticize it. That ship was hit and I believe from all that have read and seen reported that it was destroyed by a secondary explosion of the liquid propellent in the Vulkan AS missiles because there must have been a fire source which was not properly put out.

This would be in a similar fashion that the Japanese air craft carrier Taiho was destroyed in The Battle of the Philippine Sea in 1944. The carrier sustained damage in a torpedo attack from the US sub Albacore. The damage was successfully controlled from a operational standpoint (as they thought)and the ship resumed action. They had a aviation fuel leak caused by the torpedo attack which showed up when they resumed action. The ventilation system was turned on to dissipate the fumes but in turn caused a massive exlplosion which led to the scuttling of the Taiho.


70 posted on 04/23/2022 10:25:30 AM PDT by DarthVader (Not by speeches & majority decisions will the great issues of the day be decided but by Blood & Iron)
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To: wetgundog

I had to look that one up.


71 posted on 04/23/2022 10:26:44 AM PDT by EEGator
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To: marcusmaximus

Daily Mail... not reliable.


72 posted on 04/23/2022 10:32:01 AM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: DarthVader

In both cases the initial damage was caused by enemy action. The initial reports from muh Russia were that it was just a fire, not enemy action, which caused the trouble.


73 posted on 04/23/2022 10:44:59 AM PDT by Kevmo (Give back Ukes their Nukes https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts)
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To: PIF
“Russia's 110-Year-Old Salvage Ship Deploying To Moskva Wreck: Report
Kommuna, an antique Russian Navy salvage ship, has embarked on a mission to investigate a potential salvage operation for the Moskva wreck.
by Emma Helfrich Apr 22, 2022 9:27 PM”

Idiots will sink themselves in that old crap and next blame Ukrainian Nazis, CIA, NWO, Schwab, Gates and the Reptilians.

74 posted on 04/23/2022 10:54:25 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: Kevmo

I never said the missile attack was fake. But the Daily Mail is still a shitty source even if they get 10-20% right. I would never use it for my job nor academic research.

However it is still conceivable that a fire in the forward missile section of this ship could have happened. Especially with liquid fueled missiles. There are numerous examples throughout modern naval history of ships being destroyed by magazine explosions that were non-action related. Here are a few examples: USS Maine, HMS Vanguard, IJN Mutsu, IJN Kawachi, IJN Tsukuba, HMS Glatton, ITAL Leonardo Da Vinci and several others. Pyrotechnics on ships is a tricky craft in engineering and is till has it’s issues today.


75 posted on 04/23/2022 10:59:28 AM PDT by DarthVader (Not by speeches & majority decisions will the great issues of the day be decided but by Blood & Iron)
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To: TexasGator

Thats what ive been reading. Muskova is in approximately 450 ft f water.


76 posted on 04/23/2022 11:03:32 AM PDT by DownInFlames (P)
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To: marcusmaximus

Ukraine: “Hey, lookit! More targets”


77 posted on 04/23/2022 11:25:50 AM PDT by SkyDancer ( I make airplanes fly, what's your super power?)
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To: marcusmaximus

Ukraine: “Hey, lookit! More targets”


78 posted on 04/23/2022 11:27:56 AM PDT by SkyDancer ( I make airplanes fly, what's your super power?)
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To: DarthVader

One of the tells in this instance was how fast the Ukes claimed that they had sunk the ship with AntiShip Missiles. It was before the Rukes even admitted the ship was sunk.

A secondary, less reliable tell, was that Russian ships in the area moved AWAY from the wreck rather than towards it, because they were in missile range.

Notably from that MonkeyWerx page, at 15:18 in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmUbx6Dxrrg
Russia is blaming NATO for the sinking of the Muskva. Now, why would that be if it was their own incompetence which sunk it?


79 posted on 04/23/2022 11:31:18 AM PDT by Kevmo (Give back Ukes their Nukes https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts)
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To: Renfrew
Putin is an overt enemy of individual liberty and represents the antithesis of conservatism.


So I suspect that FR isn't quite as divided as one might think at first glance.

80 posted on 04/23/2022 11:33:02 AM PDT by Alvin Diogenes
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