Posted on 03/07/2022 6:45:33 AM PST by Conservat1
The Kremlin has announced its demands for ending the war in Ukraine:
-Ukraine must change its constitution to guarantee it won't join any "blocs", i.e. NATO + EU.
-Must recognise Crimea as part of Russia.
-Must recognise the eastern separatist regions as independent.— Patrick Reevell (@Reevellp) March 7, 2022
That's B.S.. I haven't defending Russia or Putin in the slightest. My only point was that the 1994 Budapest memorandum does not obligate the U.S. to go to war if Russia invades. Everyone, including Ukraine, understood that at the time it was signed. So while you may fairly accuse me of making excuses for the United States, I haven't made any for Putin/Russia. They flat-out violated that Memorandum, and it isn't even debatable.
Putin wasn’t deterred by those sanctions. Quit pretending they work. Even Biden’s press secretary said they had no hope sanctions would work, so why do you?
Of course the sanctions didn't deter Putin because Biden didn't impose any sanctions until after the invasion, and still hasn't imposed full sanctions. As soon as the Russians crossed the border, it was too late for "deterrence" by definition. So now, the goal isn't deterrence. The goal is to so damage the Russian economy so severely that Russians other than Putin himself start considering getting rid of Putin before their wealth is destroyed completely.
You wanna do all the stuff that doesn’t work and none of the stuff that does work for “Respecting Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders and refraining from the threat or the use of force against Ukraine.” So yeah, that makes you a PUtin apologist.
So despite me saying this is entirely Putin's fault, that we should send Ukraine every weapon we can, and that we should try to cripple their economy, I'm a "Putin apologist" because I don't want to hand the Ukrainians a bunch of nukes.
You're nuts, buddy.
And yet Zelenksky is a puppet installed by the deep state. Just ask Joe Biden.
I always figured these 3 objectives were his end game
How do you say “Nuts” in Ukrainian?
And absorbing Ukraine entirely wouldn’t have solved that problem even more comprehensively?
So despite me saying this is entirely Putin’s fault, that we should send Ukraine every weapon we can,
***Uhh, except nukes, it appears. This whole thing is because of those nukes. And that the Ukes didn’t join NATO. If they had joined, they wouldn’t have been invaded.
and that we should try to cripple their economy, I’m a “Putin apologist” because I don’t want to hand the Ukrainians a bunch of nukes. You’re nuts, buddy.
***Okay, I’ll withdraw my contention that you’re a Putin apologist, you’re just a Putin appeaser. This is only on the basis of our interactions on this thread. When I hold your feet to the fire, scratch the surface, I find an appeaser looking to niggle when we should be looking to do the Nehemiah stand-in-the-gap routine because they denuked. We owe it to them rather than go nitpicky right when it’s time for us to put up or shut up.
“Oh, and you will pay our membership fees.”
Send Putin the bill to rebuild all the stuff his army of war criminals destroyed while he’s at it.
L
Putin continues to work towards his own demise.
I say a year at this point.
Put a time block on the non-membership (say for ten years), and Crimea if land forces limited.
A puppet regime under Russian/Putin's control.
“I can’t imagine that Putin ever wanted all of Ukraine. It would be too difficult to control. So that list is probably everything that Putin wanted in the first place.
Ask for the moon, then “reluctantly” accept your original demands.
Anyway, it’s up to Ukraine to accept or reject the deal. But if it’s accepted, I sure hope it’s not back to business as usual in the West with regards to Russia.”
_________
Agree 100% except re: the last part. Putin will be negotiating with NATO heads, not anyone in Ukraine. The sycophantic, complicit left MSM is lying. Putin is 100% sane and on track notwithstanding clear and substantial setbacks. He’s moving slower than he expected, I suspect, but check and mate will still come by early April.
Also, I don’t think that “back to business as usual in the West” is an option, but the new order may not be what most people are presently imagining. As a practical matter, NATO will be over. China will elevate its aggressions beyond what the pundits seem to think, even if taking Taiwan remains just over the horizon. Xi and Putin will stun with a strategic partnership that will seem obvious in retrospect; and it will include but not be limited to a truly massive energy, heavy industry and cyber-tech deal.
“Even without the last two clauses, if Zelensky accepted this deal, Ukranians would show him the door.”
—
I’d hope they are more realistic, realizing “you can’t always get what you want” and realize life, individual or corporate, sometimes entails gulping a truly bitter pill.
If I were Z I'd take that chance. He can always break his promise before they break theirs, if he's secure. And the world largely wants him bolstered up now, whereas they want Russia to go sit in a corner.
The US and NATO pledged not to expand closer to Russia, and they did anyway.
Of course, Russia said they wouldn’t invade and did anyway.
When everyone is lying there is no good faith talks possible
If I were Ukraine, I’d take this, plus expecting reparations for the war.
My thoughts too. Middle ground to start negotiations.
There is nothing in that Russian offer worth taking.
It is not even a legitimate offer.
Just keep killing more Russian officers and tanks. Apparently a new Russian navy ship was hit and damaged and possibly sunk recently.
Ukraine, remember the art of the deal. Putin wants out, you want out. He needs to save some face, you dont want your beautiful people starved out and land even more destroyed. Give him something to save face, but not all. DO NOT replace Zelensky with a puppet. That gives him everything eventually!
My meandering thoughts. Prayers for wisdom for those advising Zelensky and who know much better what to do.
Слава Богу! Свобода для України
Glory to God! Freedom for Ukraine!
He wants it over because he’s getting his butt kicked around. Not out of any sense of magnanimity. if he could he would have just rolled in and toppled the government and did whatever he wanted. Which is the reason you usually roll in a full invasion force.
This is all Russia has been asking for pretty much.
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