Posted on 12/02/2021 9:12:19 AM PST by Red Badger
What a mess.
Coronavirus PING!
bkmk
If this is fear mongering as you say they could just as easily put the number much higher. Must be calculated and restrained fear mongering. Science!
I am not impugning your right to choose to be vaccinated or not, and I already expressed my concerns about the long term side effects of the vaccine. You are right to question and I fully support your right to remain unvaccinated. This is a site for Freedom-loving Republicans, but sadly too many members insist on reposting stuff from the conspiracy kooks like Alex Jones, which confirms what the Leftists choose to believe about us.
There is a difference between saying “I don’t want to be vaccinated, because I have doubts about the efficacy and safety of the vaccine” and shrieking “Vaccines are POISON and they want to murder us all!” The first is a rational proclamation of one’s fundamental freedom and the other is the ranting of an unhinged, paranoid loon.
However, my suggestion has somehow inflamed some FReepers’ delicate sensibilities and are now attacking me with pearl-clutching hubris and “how dare you!” outrage. I just don’t want to be associated with the loons.
I’ve got no beef with you making the best decision for you and how you see fit. I’m not trying to argue with you, just pointing out how someone can look at the same set of facts and draw a vastly different conclusion.
I really wish everyone could just be left to make up their own mind without any coercion or censorship. Now I am not accusing you of that at all...but folks are upset because their freedom to choose not to vax is being directly attacked by pro-vax interests. The fact is that the only real meaningful coercion and censorship happens to be coming from the side that agrees with your position. Are you taking a stand against that? If so, then you and I are good.
Absolutely I am. Biden, after having promised to eradicate the virus, has failed and is getting increasingly desperate and authoritarian. For whatever reason, the Left believes it has to been seen as doing something. Trump brought us the vaccines, like ‘em or hate ‘em, which has saved the folks most at risk, which was the original goal. Now the Biden Administration has blown past “15 days to slow the spread” to avoid overburdening our hospitals last year to treating this relatively mild infection like it’s the Bubonic plague.
Vaccines are available and plentiful and have shown some efficacy in preventing or at least reducing the severity of the virus. Take ‘em, don’t take ‘em, but please people should stop screaming about Bill Gates depopulation conspiracies and Dr. Mengele comparisons to that idiot egotist Fauci. People should be allowed to openly discuss the facts and and attempt by the government or their henchmen in Big Tech to censor or suppress that is unAmerican.
Well said sir! I’ve been witnessing the attacks as well on those that have differing viewpoints. I’ve chosen to not accept the vaccine at this time for personal reasons and respect you’ve made decisions that are best for you. Live and let live; that’s freedom. The pro vax/anti-vax terms being used to spilt people into factions on these forums is used to malign individuals with opposing reasonable viewpoints. This tactic is no different than lefties utilization of race to divide people into sub-groups in the hope to create feuding factions. Those that continue along that dialogue have no place on these forums and are certainly no better than the lefties they harp on each day. From my viewpoint they spend each day hopping from thread to thread to do more than divide. It’s easy to spot and more so when they bring their clan by tagging them into the conversation to hop onto the bandwagon.
Lawsuits? Lawsuits? ARRESTS.
Nuremberg trials part two.
Vaccines are available and plentiful and have shown some efficacy in preventing or at least reducing the severity of the virus.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sadly, not true. Most of the deaths in countries that are heavily vaxed and actually make figures public (England, Scotland and Israel for instance) show that the vast majority of those dying of covid were vaxed.
You’re only telling half the story. First off, UK (which is both England and Scotland) vaccination rates are not that high. Israel’s is pretty high and their mortality rate from COVID is 0.6% compared to 1.6% in the US. Similarly, death rates among other high vaccinated countries is extraordinarily low, such as the UAE (0.3%), Denmark (0.6%), and Seychelles (0.7%). Meanwhile, low vax countries like Mexico (7.6% mortality) have very high death rates. Not counting countries using crappy vaccines from Russia, China, and Cuba, of course. Who knows what they do.
any other vaccine would have already been pulled before now
Answer: $$$$$$$$
How will it ever be proven that those effects were a result of the shots, years later?
I've written this previously, but I think it's worth repeating...
One of the most vital and important (yet perhaps boring) elements in legitimate clinical trials, is the consistent, routine, accurate, and timely collection and recording of side-effect and efficacy data. Trials usually run from two to ten years, with meaningfully large test and control groups. Indeed, the FDA's own websites clearly state that "It's the clinical trials that take so long--usually several years," says Sandra Kweder, M.D., deputy director of the Office of New Drugs in the CDER.
With all this data being collected soberly, a full assessment of the benefits AND side effects can be determined. Things like adverse effects, fatalities, and the like can be observed AND recorded and also vetted (maybe Bob wasn't killed by the shot...or maybe he was).
Not only that, the long time-series of data allows not just for an immediate calculation of vaccine efficacy (VE) but the observation of VE over time, to see if the impact decays and with what kind of pattern (good for a long time then a speedy drop, gradual decline, immediate drop etc).
That's what should have happened with these shots.
Instead, we got a few months of testing, a high VE, and the "all clear" for EUA. The EUA was not fully explained in the context I provided, with a strong caveat emptor warning. Anyone who offered the context I provided was an "antivaxxer."
To be sure, the very early results in the spring of 2021 were ok....cases declined (though that may have simply been a seasonal decline - it would have been nice to assess that possibility with a long-term trial...), and VE held up.
Then we got reports of bad side effects, sickness, and tragically fatalities. Here is where the absence of controlled clinical trials was revealed: there was NO centralized, homogeneous, controlled collection of these side-effects. It was chiefly citizen reporting, requiring the development of citizen databases...a sort of Nachumlist for shots.
Because this very quickly descended into political science vs medical science, anyone voicing concern about these shots on the basis of this citizen reporting was demonized. What made many people realize this was political science, was that just a few months earlier, "respected" people like Christine Grady ( Fauci's wife) were saying basically the same things, e.g., circa February 2021-
57:26 “…should COVID vaccines be mandated for healthcare providers?” My response is the following…in many healthcare institutions, healthcare workers are required to take flu vaccines…in order to take care of patients, in order to protect the patients. I think that…where we are in the history of this pandemic, I don’t think mandating is the right choice at this point, for several reasons. We still need more data…the two vaccines that are being distributed are under an Emergency Use Authorization – they are not approved vaccines (emphasis from Dr. Grady)…and there is this background of concern about politicization…and distrust…that I think it's a mistake to force people to take it. So I don’t think we should be mandating vaccines.
Well...ain't that a kick in the head!?!
Fast-forward to today...we have most of the nation (if not planet) having received shots or natural immunity, and no legitimate, controlled long-term clinical trial. There is now statistical evidence of VE waning over a few months, necessitating boosters (that wasn't known when the EUA was authorized...that'd have been a nice little detail to tell the nation but, ya know, we didn't have time for long-term trials...).
And now this data dump..
We have weekly if not daily media stories happily chirping when the unvaxxed die of the virus, goalpost moving re: lying that the shots were all about lessened symptoms when they were only approved for PREVENTION, and if anyone who HAS gotten a shot dies of what is clearly a reaction, that news is suppressed or ridiculed. Immunity no good, but shot is good.
It is so comical that people who used to question authority - like musicians and artists - are now DEMANDING that we obey authority. When punk rockers are anti-shot and Dave Grohl of Flu Pfizers is pro shot, you know we're in the upside-down.
the vaccine is safe and effective”
(so chants the media and paid FR trolls)
DugwagDuke, gas-dr and Mom MD are AWOL.
None so blind as he who wants to spread lying propaganda.
Please point out the lies from my post so that others may be enlightened.
And tax payers foot the bill if the big pharma billionaires lose in court. What a country! The lion’s share of so-called doctors
are the lap dogs of big pharma. Don’t expect then to report the real numbers of the sick and the dead they treated.
“ the government is not being transparent about the risks of the vaccine. people have the right to decide whether or not to accept an experimental vaccine
This is a a fundamental right having to do with clinical research ethics. There are risks but no access to the data of the benefit ratio.”
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