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Once approved, should people be required to get a COVID-19 vaccine as a matter of public health?
The Denver Channel ^ | August 31, 2020 | Meghan Lopez

Posted on 09/07/2020 7:34:22 PM PDT by DoodleBob

DENVER — In research laboratories around the world, the race to find a COVID-19 vaccine is on. Already, more than 30,000 volunteers have agreed to participate in Phase 3 vaccine trials in the U.S., according to officials from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

China, meanwhile, has been giving an experimental vaccine to medical professionals, border inspectors and other workers in high-risk professions, according to CNN.

President Trump has committed the U.S. to approving a vaccine by the end of the year.

Once a vaccine is approved, however, should cities, states or businesses mandate it? Denver7 heard multiple perspectives on the topic.

A history of mandates

There is a legal precedent for mandating vaccines in the U.S. that dates back to 1905.

The mandate stems from a U.S. Supreme Court case known as Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

In 1902, the city of Cambridge mandated smallpox immunizations for everyone over the age of 21 after an outbreak.

Local pastor Henning Jacobson refused to be vaccinated and was fined $5. Jacobson challenged the fine in court and the lawsuit eventually made its way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled 7-2 that the state did not violate the Fourteenth Amendment.

“In terms of a state and local vaccine mandate, the Supreme Court precedent is very clear that that would be acceptable when the vaccine is serving to address public health,” said Govind Persad, an assistant professor at the University of Denver Strum College of Law.

The Supreme Court justices, however, specified that cities and states must provide a medical exemption for someone who can prove a scientific reason for why they cannot or should not be vaccinated. The Supreme Court ruling did not, however, make room for a religious or ideological exemption so long as the law is applied equally to everyone regardless of race or gender.

Over the years, some states like Colorado have allowed for religious exemptions in the immunization schedule.

The ruling has been discussed in numerous cases over the years and Persad says it has been reaffirmed repeatedly.

More recently, the state of New York health officials issued a mandatory MMR vaccine order after a measles outbreak. The majority of the cases were reported within the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community in Brooklyn.

A group of parents sued the city over the mandate, but a judged disagreed and upheld the order.

Persad believes it’s less likely that the federal government would try to order mandatory vaccines in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, but believes it is possible some cities and states will decide to do so once there are enough doses for everyone. Along with requiring residents to be immunized, Persad says they could also require visitors to show proof of being vaccinated.

Aside from local and state governments, businesses also have a right to require immunizations for both employees and customers, according to Persad.

“Some businesses certainly could do that and actually have done that for other types of vaccines,” Persad said.

Employers would, however, have to follow the Americans with Disabilities Act and provide reasonable accommodations to employees and customers who cannot get the vaccine for medical reasons.

A bigger challenge, however, would be for businesses trying to enforce the rule.

“In terms of customers there would be questions about how... when you’re trying to draft that kind of requirement as a business, how you would enforce it,” Persad said. “It’s easier to see whether somebody has got a mask on then to see whether they have been vaccinated.”

He believes a vaccine order could be a good thing in order to get rid of some of the other public health orders that have been issued over the past six months.

“By accepting one regulation, mandate, can we get rid of other regulations like business closures and like, school closures that are restricting peoples personal freedom more seriously?” Persad asked. “Can that really enhance personal freedom because they allow us to do things safely that we otherwise wouldn’t be able to do safely or be able to do it all?”

Uncharted territory

While some support the idea of a mandate, others are skeptical and say it would infringe on personal freedoms.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is an attorney and the president of the children’s Health Defense. He’s worried about how new the vaccine is and how complicated it is to get right.

“There’s a peculiar problem with the COVID vaccines that is almost unique,” Kennedy Jr. said.

He’s worried about the risk of antibody-mediated disease enhancement, which could cause a more serious reaction to coronaviruses by enhancing the disease rather than protecting against it.

ADE is considered to be rare and there is no proof that the phenomenon exists in COVID-19. However, Kennedy Jr. is worried about the possibility.

“I think it’s a healthy thing to question the pharmaceutical industry. I’m not anti-vaccine, although people call me anti-vaccine. I had all of my children vaccinated and if this vaccine says what people say it’s going to do, then I will take it, but we should be able to have a debate about that,” Kennedy Jr. said.

He believes the COVID-19 vaccine that is eventually approved will perform more like a flu vaccine and will require regular doses.

“I think that to be optimistic about getting a vaccine for the coronavirus that’s better than the flu vaccine is unlikely,” he said.

Kennedy Jr. also pointed out that the federal government has paid out billion in damages for vaccine injuries over the years.

Pharmaceutical companies in the U.S. cannot be sued as a result of the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. Instead, people who were injured by immunizations can file a claim with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

Critics of the program say only 10% of claims that are filed are paid out and many others go unfiled.

Beyond that, Kennedy Jr. is not sure the vaccine will be the end-all answer to the pandemic.

“I don’t think the vaccine is going to solve all the societal problems that people are hoping that it will solve. I think we’re much more likely to get that solution from therapeutic drugs,” he said.

Public health versus personal liberty

Del Bigtree, the host of Highwire with Del Bigtree and CEO of the Informed Consent Action Network, is also concerned with how quickly researchers are moving on this vaccine.

“The two most dangerous words ever put into one sentence are 'rush' and 'science.' We should never rush science,” Bigrtree said. “Even if this vaccine doesn’t come out until the middle of next year, that means the safety studies around it really only lasted, maybe, six months at best.”

He’s concerned about the potential long-term effects the vaccine can cause that might not be discovered for years, such as auto-immune disorders.

“These are all things that were essentially written about in science fiction novels and now we’re seeing them in action,” Bigtree said.

Despite this, Bigtree is convinced that as soon as a vaccine is approved for widespread use, certain states and businesses will move toward mandating it, something he believes breaks the Nuremberg Code.

The Nuremberg Code was developed after World War II and states that patients must provide explicit voluntary consent before participating in human experimentation.

Critics of this argument say an approved vaccine does not constitute human experimentation.

Regardless, Bigtree says he opposes the idea of mandates and he plans to fight any vaccine order.

“You can be assured that we will be doing everything we can to fight for people’s freedom and right to decide what is injected into them. We are not farm animals, we are free citizens,” he said. “I don’t think that the overall health is really the position of the United States government, our health is really our own decision.”

An uphill battle

If anyone knows about the potential pushback from the anti-vaccine community, it’s Rep. Kyle Mullica, a Democrat who represents Adams County.

Rep. Mullica is an ER nurse on the frontlines of the COVID-19 pandemic and a state lawmaker. Last session, he helped pass a bill aimed at boosting the state’s immunization rates by requiring parents to take additional steps if they do not want to vaccinate their children.

“It’s still was a struggle and it still was very contentious, and I think that that stems from just a lot of the misinformation that’s out there that’s been put on the internet,” Rep. Mullica said.

Colorado is still last in the country when it comes to kindergarten MMR vaccines.

Rep. Mullica believes the best way to combat the novel coronavirus pandemic is for enough people to be vaccinated to create herd immunity for those who cannot be immunized.

However, he insists no one on the state level is discussing the idea of a mandate right now and that there are other options instead.

“No one is looking at going to your house and tying you down and forcibly injecting you. That’s not something that I advocate for,” Rep. Mullica said. “What we can do is look at tools that are in the toolbelt.”

Those tools include information campaigns, among other things. Most importantly though, Rep. Mullica says he doesn’t believe the Food and Drug Administration would release anything that is dangerous.

When a vaccine is released, he will encourage people to get it for the sake of public health.

“Really, what it comes down to is thinking about something that’s bigger than yourself, thinking about your neighbors,” he said.

The race is on

Inside a laboratory on the Colorado State University Campus, researchers are making progress on four COVID-19 vaccine candidates.

Gregg Dean is the head of the department of microbiology, immunology and pathology at CSU working on the vaccine and says around the world, researchers are sharing more information than ever before.

“These are times like no other than any of us have seen so it takes extraordinary measures,” Dean said.

Typically, there are three phases to clinical trial, starting with a safety aspect. Despite the quicker work, Dean insists the process is still fundamentally the same.

In order for things to go back to normal, Dean says, countries need to be able to diagnose the disease, treat it and also prevent it.

He understands the concerns people may have about any new vaccines coming out.

“Everybody wants to have some certainty around the safety and advocacy of a vaccine. The idea that we may be rushing the process, whether that’s truly the case or not, it’s concerning for a lot of individuals and that’s so understandable,” Dean said.

He doesn’t necessarily like the idea of mandating a vaccine because he thinks it’s a distraction that can co-opt the discussion.

“My opinion is, we really need to focus on communication and getting information out. This is a time for us to build the communication relationship and trust,” Dean said.

With better communication, Dean believes Coloradans will step up and participate in the vaccine strategy when it is improved.

A different question

During a recent news conference, Governor Jared Polis said the focus for the immediate future won’t be making sure the right people are vaccinated.

“There will be limited dosage available as a vaccine comes online, so the real question that the federal government and the states will deal with based on the advice of medical professionals is, how do you prioritize?” Gov. Polis said.

He is now working with health officials to identify the groups who should be prioritized, such as frontline workers and people who are at a higher risk of suffering from serious complications from COVID-19.

“How can we make sure that we have the highest and best use of the limited supply available in our state is the real question that will begin to grapple with,” Gov. Polis said.

To mandate or not

In research labs around the world, scientists are working quickly to find a COVID-19 vaccine.

Pharmaceutical companies are already reporting promising results for their trials.

However, once a new vaccine is approved, convincing millions of Americans to get it could be a different challenge altogether.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: billgates; blm; cdc; cnn; coronavirus; covid19; epstein; fakenews; fauci; gasdr; gasdrtroll; mandates; mandatory; mastersoftheuniverse; melindagates; microsoft; militaryenforced; nevertrumpers; orgyisland; pedoisland; science; trumpsaysno; trumpsaysyes; trumpvaccine; trustmeimadr; vaccine
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To: El Cid

I am a little punchy after 104 days straight of work. I probably failed to proffer a question. I am sorry

The question I have been generally asking is why have we as intelligent people lost our minds and are easy manipulated away from science for political points.

I am reminded of he opening of newsroom. We used to make amazing discoveries, created th greatest economy, did amazing things, and we weren’t afraid. That no longer exists today particularly with some on this board.

I am tired and going to try to rest. In my sleep I will continue to worry about my patients and pray for their well being as well as discernment in what to do. I would ask you to pray for us in the medical field as well that we may provide wise and good care for those we serve


101 posted on 09/07/2020 9:54:20 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America: INCLUDING THEIR LIBERTIES)
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To: DoodleBob

Oh hell no! Why would I get a rushed, risky vaccine when the survival rate is nearly 100%?


102 posted on 09/07/2020 9:54:58 PM PDT by CAluvdubya (<---has now left CA for NV, where God/guns have not been outlawed! She's done and he's won!)
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To: CAluvdubya

Because prevention is always preferable to treatment


103 posted on 09/07/2020 9:56:04 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America: INCLUDING THEIR LIBERTIES)
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To: chuckb87; gas_dr
Can you tell us what facility you work at so we can avoid it. Obviously you went to a school in CA where anybody can get a degree.

One of the most amazing things about this situation with Covid is similar to the Trump presidency in one way. It causes the worthless chickensh!ts to reveal themselves in large numbers. gas_dr is an asset to this community. He has been enlightening us lucky enough to read his posts for 15 years longer than you have been here. I have followed his posts on this for months and learned a lot. What have you done? What makes you so smart that you feel entitled to besmirch an asset to this community? YOu should be ashamed of yourself

104 posted on 09/07/2020 10:04:34 PM PDT by fireman15
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To: Deaf Smith

BLM should get it first.


105 posted on 09/07/2020 10:06:22 PM PDT by funfan
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To: Deaf Smith

I never realized how much I touched my face until the virus came along and they said don’t touch your face. I just do it out of habit I guess.


106 posted on 09/07/2020 10:09:56 PM PDT by funfan
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To: Deaf Smith

I never realized how much I touched my face until the virus came along and they said don’t touch your face. I just do it out of habit I guess.


107 posted on 09/07/2020 10:09:56 PM PDT by funfan
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To: DoodleBob

In order to go to public school, perhaps yes. There are many other mandated vaccines.


108 posted on 09/07/2020 10:55:15 PM PDT by olivia3boys
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To: DoodleBob

Simple answer is not just no but hell no


109 posted on 09/07/2020 11:16:33 PM PDT by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds)
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To: El Cid

Statistical analysis indicates you are of greater risk of dying in a car crash driving to the doctors office to get your vaccination than dying of Covid.


110 posted on 09/07/2020 11:20:52 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: fireman15

Well said...


111 posted on 09/08/2020 12:26:30 AM PDT by dakine
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To: Secret Agent Man
the report of “sterlizling” ingredients in vaccines dates back to at least the mid 1990s, when we were told of that plot here in the Philippines. That was before Gates got involved.

It is an “urban legend”: there is a birth control shot, so people then assume any shot can mean birth control.

The worse is saying tetanus shots cause miscarriage, and people can't figure out why we are giving people tetanus shots during pregnancy. (It's for neonatal tetanus, and if you didn't receive tetanus vaccine as a child, you need three shots).

Since one out of ten pregnancies miscarry, you can see how some blame the shot.

I've seen neonatal tetanus, and it is horrible.

as for Gates:

never underestimate the corruption of third world companies: especially China but alas also Indian pharmaceuticals.

Bill Clinton got burned when he pushed for cheap generics to replace the expensive generics to treat HIV in Africa and Asia... and the Indian company put out substandard medicine. (luckily it was 75 percent effective so it probably didn't kill people, but there have been cases of drugs manufactured fur American companies with American oversight where those in charge switched ingredients and even added chemicals so that the drugs could pass the quality control tests.

and the polio cases are not from bad vaccine per se: it is because the oral polio is a live vaccine, and one out of a million cases it evolves into the full blown disease.

Work for a couple years in the third world, and maybe you will change your mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRUq3Igf-k

112 posted on 09/08/2020 12:33:10 AM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

I think my mom would go for it, despite everything I’ve told her.

I’ll have a front row seat to watch the side effects.

/Rose Hill abides


113 posted on 09/08/2020 12:36:42 AM PDT by Salamander (The left screams out in pain as they stab you.)
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To: DoodleBob

No. However if you work in the health care industry(as I do) yes. I’m required by state law to get a flu vaccine. If I don’t like it then I’m told “Well, find yourself a different job, ok?’’. The choice is mine.


114 posted on 09/08/2020 12:55:47 AM PDT by jmacusa (If we're all equal how is diversity our strength?)
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To: DoodleBob

All hope is lost. I just heard on ABC News that there’s been a post Labor Day surge in new COVID 19 cases. Horrible news considering that it’s only been 4 hours.


115 posted on 09/08/2020 1:16:12 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult

And most places that report such things haven’t been open since Friday and the earliest ones won’t reopen for about 5 hours.


116 posted on 09/08/2020 1:19:27 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: wastedyears

Every f@#$ing thing has to be mandatory about this virus, one of the symptoms of which is to make left-wing politicians reflexively grab for more and more power. Mandatory masks, mandatory distancing, mandatory lockdowns, and now, once they’re done casting aspersions on the vaccine because Trump might somehow look good and that can’t be allowed—science-be-damned!—mandatory vaccines. GFYS, Nancy, Chuck, Cuomo, et al. It’s times like these I’m glad to be an expat, though politicians here are just as obnoxious. But at least if I fog out while they’re talking Hebrew real fast, I can’t understand a word they’re saying.


117 posted on 09/08/2020 1:22:05 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 ("SHUT UP!" he explained.)
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To: DoodleBob

No way am I taking it. Anyone here who wants to force can go f themselves.

THERE ARE SIMPLE COVID EARLY AND LATER STAGE TREATMENTS. I have posted them here before. Zinc, ionophore and AZM for early stage, MATH+ for later stage. Also, Dr David Brownstein MD has been treating viral illnesses using his protocol for about 30 years. If some loser MD here doesn’t want to follow one of the integrative protocols, tough $hit. Personally I think MD’s should be sued into the ground for refusing to administer IV-c to flu, cold and corona patients. My ex-inlaws were MDs and they are absolutely the unhealthiest people I have met. One side has two vaccine injured daughters (crohns) which they refuse to admit.

We don’t live in a technocracy. I handle my own immune system, along with my wellness MD.


118 posted on 09/08/2020 2:02:44 AM PDT by SecAmndmt (Arm yourselves!)
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To: Ouchthatonehurt

There are multiple vaccine candidates which did not use any fetal stem cells during any part of their development. Novavax, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline (GSK), and Sinovac, are using ethically-derived cell lines.

https://www.pop.org/which-covid-19-vaccines-are-being-developed-with-fetal-cell-lines-derived-from-aborted-babies/


119 posted on 09/08/2020 2:07:40 AM PDT by 2aProtectsTheRest (The media is banging the fear drum enough. Don't help them do it.)
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult

Their “surge” in “cases” means they found some virus on a throat or nasal swab despite the person being completely asymptomatic. Some “cases”. For the first time in my life, people who are not sick are being quarantined and declared.

Here in Texas the numbers are full of errors. Collin county regrets allowing the state to take over managing their numbers - complete joke. Duplicate cases, changing definition of cases etc. How public policy can be formulated from this, one does not know.

We have too many fat people in our ranks, people who continue to shovel food into their mouths all around me despite being pre-diabetic or type 2. Obesity is the pandemic. The conventional MD profession could make themselves useful in this regard, but they are clueless as to real health, so not likely to happen. Many make more money being drug pushers for big Pharma than actually doing a proper DX.

The only reason I would go to a hospital is for surgery or trauma care.


120 posted on 09/08/2020 2:13:24 AM PDT by SecAmndmt (Arm yourselves!)
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