Posted on 06/25/2020 11:14:41 PM PDT by knighthawk
The House approved a wide-ranging police-reform bill Thursday night, by a vote of 236-181, sending it to the Senate, one day after Democrats stalled a GOP-backed bill there.
All 233 Democrats voted in favor of the House bill, along with three Republicans: Reps. Fred Upton of Michigan, Will Hurd of Texas and Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania.
The bill, titled the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act, came amid nationwide protests against police brutality and racial injustice in the U.S.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
To be killed in the Senate.
It probably has goodies in it for themselves
I agree with banning chokeholds and getting rid of no knock warrants.
No knock warrants are dangerous for the police as well, as the target might react as a home invasion. Plus, they make address mistakes on rare occasions, with tragic results.
this is not a federal issue.
period.
3 Republicans signed up, yet Tim Scott couldn’t get a few Dems to back his bill.
What constitutional authority does the fedgov have to ban choke holds that are employed in a non discriminatory manner? I know everyone wants to virtue signal, but this is ridiculous. If there is constitutional authority for the feds to make choke holds ILLEGAL in all of the states, then I wish they would cite it.
As a police officer, I was trained in the use of choke holds after the Rodney King incident. It was considered to be preferable to beating a suspect into submission with a baton. When it was applied properly it was 100% effective, much more so than pepper spray or Energy Directed Weapons. I used it on several occasions and never killed or seriously injured anyone. The suspect would be groggy for a few moments which would give enough time to place them into handcuffs.
I think that this use of force option should be left to the states. if they wish to ban it then fine. Just be aware that another use of force option for a WELL TRAINED (note use of phrase, don’t DEFUND Police training) Police Officer will no longer be available.
Are they speaking of restricting or eliminating federal funding for non-compliant states only???
DMZFrank is right. This will result in more shootings—many fatal.
Today’s arrests are oftentimes wrestling with a drugged-up suspect with super-human resistance.
Mr. Dim-bulb up to no good again. Or, should I say... Dem-bulb.
2. The Rodney King incident was crazy, the police had limited options due to their policies and Mr. King was surrounded by police officers. He must of been high on something because a normal person would of submitted to the officers once surrounded. I read a report which stated ‘the beating was the officers' last resort for subduing King’. No the last resort was to shoot Mr. King and the officers did not use this last option. Most people do not put themselves in a police officer’s shoes and think what they would have done. The suspect was asked to surrender, then asked in a louder, more auroratative voice to surrender. He was tased which did not have effect. Since LA did not allow a choke hold, two options left, beat him or shoot him. What would the average person do with only those two options left?
People are choked unconscious every day in combat sporting events and even training. The key is not holding it too long after the person becomes unconscious. Fighting a police officer brings lots of risk to both sides. Effectively, every fight between a cop and a suspect is a life or death struggle. If you can end the struggle with a choke, everyone gets to walk away, as long as you know when to release it. By choking out a suspect, you may be saving their life or your own.
Using chokes on a restrained suspect is whole different situation.
I would point out that the 80s and 90s LAPD had no shortage of officers highly trained in various chokeholds and they still had people die as a result, from officers that *weren’t* being racist/punishing extrajudicially/settling scores, etc.
The genuine problems seemed to revolve around a few general categories - one, the officer had adrenaline induced time sense dilation and simply maintained the hold longer than they thought. I spoke to an retired officer that had that happen to them and it basically destroyed him psychologically.
Two, the officer thought the perp was faking it and continued to maintain the hold, when the perp wasn’t faking it.
Third, anatomical anomalies, where blood vessels weren’t constructed like they were supposed to be. Chief Gates of the LAPD at the time notoriously speculated that some races might have anatomy that made them more susceptible to bad reactions to a choke hold - there may be something to that, but nobody has ever done a study.
I don’t see that *any* amount of training can resolve the above. There were cases of senior instructors in the LAPD having people die on them for one of the items cited above.
As for their authority, it’s the same one that allowed the Feds to set a national speed limit of 55mph even though there’s no direct authority for that in the Constitution. They don’t force the desired action through law, they simply say, “If you do not do X, you will receive no Federal funds. You are free to not do X, but if you do not, you will not get the money you want.”
Why not just issue every cop a cattle prod?
Even methed up, a freakin’ cattle prod would dissuade them from resisting.
I agree with you a 100 percent.
If there are two cops “fighting” with a suspect they are trying to arrest and that suspect places one police officer in a choke hold can the other police officer use deadly force to save his partner?
I understand and I completely accept the factual nature of your comments, particularly with regard to physical anomalies and maintaining the hold for longer than necessary. But I think that I should add to this analysis.
I was a state certified firearms and defensive tactics instructor. Every single use of force restraint method ever employed by police has also resulted in unintentional death, no matter how carefully applied. Whether by baton, Taser, stun gun, electro shock, open hand strikes, swarm techniques, jiu jitsu and even some come a long pain compliance techniques, (I know of one pressure point mastoid process case that resulted in a fatality) you name it, all have the potential to inflict death once the battle is joined. There is no panacea or magic bullet, no matter how loudly these Monday Morning Quarterbacks claim that there is.
We know what this is actually all about. A particularly egregious use of force was captured on video. Minneapolis and other PD’s are now attempting to disavow their written down use of force policies that involve neck restraints, both lethal and non-lethal, and everyone is back pedaling mightily as they try to convince us that they can offer a fail safe option to prevent fatal results whenever a non deadly UOF situation occurs. The cowardice and lack of support for the line police officer by the corrupt and self serving political and commentary class is utterly dismaying, disheartening and even treacherous.
We have two credible and dueling autopsy reports has to the CAUSE OF the DEATH of George Floyd. I have NO DOUBT that Chauvin committed an excessive use of force. But was it the CAUSE of Floyd’s death? Just as Mario Cuomo CONTRIBUTED to the death of hundreds of Covid patients by placing them into infected nursing homes, he was NOT the CAUSE of their death. Similarly, I think it must be definitively established as to what actually caused Floyd’s death as we consider the murder charges against Chauvin.
These are the times that try men’s souls. It will be up to courageous public officials to uphold the rule of law, to satisfy the elements of the offense according to law, and face down the braying, rioting, seditious cultural marxists who wish to subvert the constitutional rule of law and destroy our founding legacy. I don’t know if we have enough such officials in charge today, particularly in DEMONRAT infested locales. Make no mistake, much of the GOP ain’t so grand today either, except for our gutty POTUS, DJT.
I thank God every day that I retired ten years ago, before they let all these lunatics out of the asylum. Police work was frequently thankless, and full of political hassles. Often only those who knew how you had helped them and your close colleagues thanked you. EVERYBODY lies to you, your superiors, victims, perps, society at large, as they paint a target on your back while they look for the smallest infractions. Even so,it was a job that I loved and gave me much personal satisfaction.
I would NEVER become a police officer under today’s environment. God bless all the good ones who do wish to do this vital work.
Entirely aside from ethical issues, there’s one nasty little secret about electroshock weapons - there are is a significant portion of the population whose nervous systems simply ignore them until the current is high enough to just kill them. In other words, neither Tasers or stun guns or cattle prods do much to them.
Considering the spineless senators like Romney, Collins, Murkowsky and about a dozen other RINOs I wouldn't bet against it passing. Also, a 50/50 chance of Trump signing it. As Rush would say, "Don't doubt me on this"
Does someone have a real answer to this?
My biggest gripe in all of 2020 is how arbitrary everything has become. Governors pass laws — they don’t need the legislature. The Supreme Court re-writes laws passed by Congress. Why not? The Federal government is controlling your local police department. Mayors say its fine to riot, but illegal to peaceably assemble. The government closed the churches but let the pot shops stay open.
We are supposed to have a republic. A government of laws, not men. Checks and balances. Equal protection under the law. But it’s all out the window. Anything goes.
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