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To: DMZFrank

I would point out that the 80s and 90s LAPD had no shortage of officers highly trained in various chokeholds and they still had people die as a result, from officers that *weren’t* being racist/punishing extrajudicially/settling scores, etc.

The genuine problems seemed to revolve around a few general categories - one, the officer had adrenaline induced time sense dilation and simply maintained the hold longer than they thought. I spoke to an retired officer that had that happen to them and it basically destroyed him psychologically.

Two, the officer thought the perp was faking it and continued to maintain the hold, when the perp wasn’t faking it.

Third, anatomical anomalies, where blood vessels weren’t constructed like they were supposed to be. Chief Gates of the LAPD at the time notoriously speculated that some races might have anatomy that made them more susceptible to bad reactions to a choke hold - there may be something to that, but nobody has ever done a study.

I don’t see that *any* amount of training can resolve the above. There were cases of senior instructors in the LAPD having people die on them for one of the items cited above.

As for their authority, it’s the same one that allowed the Feds to set a national speed limit of 55mph even though there’s no direct authority for that in the Constitution. They don’t force the desired action through law, they simply say, “If you do not do X, you will receive no Federal funds. You are free to not do X, but if you do not, you will not get the money you want.”


12 posted on 06/26/2020 2:45:06 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Why not just issue every cop a cattle prod?

Even methed up, a freakin’ cattle prod would dissuade them from resisting.


13 posted on 06/26/2020 3:13:07 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Slo-Joe Biden... puts the DEM in Dementia.)
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To: Spktyr

I understand and I completely accept the factual nature of your comments, particularly with regard to physical anomalies and maintaining the hold for longer than necessary. But I think that I should add to this analysis.

I was a state certified firearms and defensive tactics instructor. Every single use of force restraint method ever employed by police has also resulted in unintentional death, no matter how carefully applied. Whether by baton, Taser, stun gun, electro shock, open hand strikes, swarm techniques, jiu jitsu and even some come a long pain compliance techniques, (I know of one pressure point mastoid process case that resulted in a fatality) you name it, all have the potential to inflict death once the battle is joined. There is no panacea or magic bullet, no matter how loudly these Monday Morning Quarterbacks claim that there is.

We know what this is actually all about. A particularly egregious use of force was captured on video. Minneapolis and other PD’s are now attempting to disavow their written down use of force policies that involve neck restraints, both lethal and non-lethal, and everyone is back pedaling mightily as they try to convince us that they can offer a fail safe option to prevent fatal results whenever a non deadly UOF situation occurs. The cowardice and lack of support for the line police officer by the corrupt and self serving political and commentary class is utterly dismaying, disheartening and even treacherous.

We have two credible and dueling autopsy reports has to the CAUSE OF the DEATH of George Floyd. I have NO DOUBT that Chauvin committed an excessive use of force. But was it the CAUSE of Floyd’s death? Just as Mario Cuomo CONTRIBUTED to the death of hundreds of Covid patients by placing them into infected nursing homes, he was NOT the CAUSE of their death. Similarly, I think it must be definitively established as to what actually caused Floyd’s death as we consider the murder charges against Chauvin.

These are the times that try men’s souls. It will be up to courageous public officials to uphold the rule of law, to satisfy the elements of the offense according to law, and face down the braying, rioting, seditious cultural marxists who wish to subvert the constitutional rule of law and destroy our founding legacy. I don’t know if we have enough such officials in charge today, particularly in DEMONRAT infested locales. Make no mistake, much of the GOP ain’t so grand today either, except for our gutty POTUS, DJT.

I thank God every day that I retired ten years ago, before they let all these lunatics out of the asylum. Police work was frequently thankless, and full of political hassles. Often only those who knew how you had helped them and your close colleagues thanked you. EVERYBODY lies to you, your superiors, victims, perps, society at large, as they paint a target on your back while they look for the smallest infractions. Even so,it was a job that I loved and gave me much personal satisfaction.

I would NEVER become a police officer under today’s environment. God bless all the good ones who do wish to do this vital work.


16 posted on 06/26/2020 3:44:09 AM PDT by DMZFrank
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