Utah banning ‘conversion therapy’ with Mormon church backing

Idaho State Journal ^ | 11/30/2019 | IdahoStateJournal

[aimhigh]

Utah is on its way to becoming the 19th state to ban the discredited practice of conversion therapy in January after state officials formed a proposal that has the support of the influential Church of a Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Republican Gov. Gary Herbert announced Tuesday night that church leaders back a regulatory rule his office helped craft after legislative efforts for a ban on the therapy failed earlier this year.

The faith known widely as the Mormon church opposed a previous version of the rule because it wanted assurances that church leaders and members who are therapists would be allowed to provide spiritual counseling for parishioners or families — which were included in the latest conversion therapy ban plan.

[Elsie]

Yup

Protesting against those who ADD to the bible

[fproy2222]

You have been protesting from your begining.
That is why you are called a PROTESTant.

Long before God spoke to Brother Joseph.

You saw that there had to be a better understanding of God’s Word and struck out on your own.You even took the name of your head protester.

[Antoninus]

It used to be illegal to corrupt the morals of a minor. These days, it's illegal not to.

Go ahead. Ask me why we opted to homeschool.

[Elsie]

And yes, the church has the responsibility to teach proper home life.

Proper?

Shouldn't these rules then be found in Mormon SCRIPTURE?

Otherwise; how do you guys say it?

Oh; 'They're just rules of men.'

[Elsie]

You saw that there had to be a better understanding of God’s Word and struck out on your own.

You even took the name of your head protester.

I DID??

[Elsie]

You saw that there had to be a better understanding of God’s Word and struck out on your own.

Nope; you mindread wrong once again.

I read the word of GOD and was able to understand it; thereby seeing the error that the self-proclaimed One True Church has being making for centuries.

[Elsie]

Long before God spoke to Brother Joseph.

Do you NOT know what the First Vision claims?

A PERSONAGE spoke to Joseph.

[Elsie]

I read the word of GOD and was able to understand it; thereby seeing the error that the self-proclaimed One True Church has being making for centuries.

You should try it; then you might be able to...

… see the error that the self-proclaimed One True Church has being making for almost two centuries.

[Elsie]

 

 

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans,

Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four;

but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one,

or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable,

to prevent you from doing injustice.

— Qur'an, Sura 4 (An-Nisa), Ayah 3^[1]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygyny_in_Islam

 

 

[Elsie]

"I Will Be a Second Mohammed"

In the heat of the Missouri 'Mormon War' of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim,

           "I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was "the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword". So shall it eventually be with us: "Joseph Smith or the Sword!" [1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking and troubling parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new spin.   In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters, but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to 'correct' the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the 'Inspired Version'  in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is 'correcting' it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural 'spin', both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. "I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book." [3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet's own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered 'infidels', pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed's followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, look to Ali ibn Abi lib, whom they consider Divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. (Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." [4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

---

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230-231. Fawn Brodie's footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57-59, 97-129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8-9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6-7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408-409.

[fproy2222]

Yes, that was not one of his best comparisons. That is one of the problems with God having men as Prophtes. They make mistakes.

Then again, the Mormons were under attack by mods that were killing, stealing,and driving families out of their homes with only what they could carry.

Nice way to get a working farm without working.

And why were the mobs mad enough to kill.
The Mormons worked togeather helping each other, so they were becoming more well off then the neighbors.
So men formed destructive mobs instead of cooperating groups to improve them selves.

‘Do not bother to build youself and others up when it is easier to tear down someone else.’

It is still the same. Make something nice and someone wants it without work.

[Elsie]

Then again, the Mormons were under attack by mods that were killing, stealing,and driving families out of their homes with only what they could carry.

SURELY not FR's mods!!

[Elsie]

And why were the mobs mad enough to kill.

I'm sure you've been taught the rest of what you've posted here; but the facts available fail to support what you so fervently believe.

Those who remained behind were NOT:

a. Killed,
b. Had stuff stolen,
c. Or driven out of their homes.

---

If you actually have any evidence that these things happened, please post it here.

Those who stayed behind have become the second largest group of those descended from Joseph Smith's writings.

Well; SOME of the writings...)

[fproy2222]

Do you havany diaries by the stay behinds?
I would like to see what you aer talking about.

[gogeo]

Church members I've known seem what...naive? Unsophisticated?

Sheep. Very obedient. I believe they're being manipulated.

[Elsie]

So; you only have anecdotes.

OK then.