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Mathematical Challenges to Darwin’s Theory of Evolution with Berlinski, Meyer, and Gelernter
Hoover Institution - Uncommon Knowledge ^ | 7/22/2019 | Stephen Meyer, David Berlinski, David Gelernter, Peter Robinson

Posted on 07/28/2019 10:50:40 AM PDT by Tennessean4Bush

Recorded on June 6, 2019 in Italy.

Based on new evidence and knowledge that functioning proteins are extremely rare, should Darwin’s theory of evolution be dismissed, dissected, developed or replaced with a theory of intelligent design?

Has Darwinism really failed? Peter Robinson discusses it with David Berlinski, David Gelernter, and Stephen Meyer, who have raised doubts about Darwin’s theory in their two books and essay, respectively The Deniable Darwin, Darwin’s Doubt, and “Giving Up Darwin” (published in the Claremont Review of Books).

(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: belongsinreligion; biology; darwinism; davidberlinski; davidgelernter; evolution; intelligentdesign; math; mathematics; notanewstopic; notasciencetopic; peterrobinson; stephenmeyer; texasgatortroll; zzzzzzz
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To: TexasGator

Evolution is not based on anything


41 posted on 07/28/2019 2:18:02 PM PDT by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds)
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To: ShadowAce

I don’t have enough faith to believe in evolution.

There is no way that throwing a bomb into a bauxite mine that just happens to contain some hydrocarbons, iron and copper will produce a fully fueled 747 ready to fly, no matter how many times it’s tried.

Yet this is how “rationalists” (HAHAHAHA) think the universe and all its components were formed.

Entropy is universal, and order cannot by definition arise from disorder, no matter how long you hold your breath and stomp your little footies.

There was nothing, then *something* exploded. What exploded, and where did it come from?


42 posted on 07/28/2019 2:23:00 PM PDT by Don W (When blacks riot, neighbourhoods and cities burn. When whites riot, nations and continents burn.)
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To: Bob434

your link doesn’t work ... could you post the correct link, i’m interested in what you’re trying to point to ...


43 posted on 07/28/2019 2:44:38 PM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: TexasGator

You are correct. Pabulum also plays a substantive role in the Theory of Evolution.


44 posted on 07/28/2019 2:59:36 PM PDT by alstewartfan ("The strangest women run wild down there Covered head to toe with Fur and hair." Al Stewart in Hanno)
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To: Born to Conserve

Goodness. I sure wish we could read and learn at your feet. Do you have a Youtube channel, or a collection of books or essays you have written? I know we are probably a lost cause, but please send us a link so we might somehow approach your magnificence.


45 posted on 07/28/2019 3:15:23 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: Born to Conserve
It’s cute when nut-job creationist wackos put on an air of scientific rationality.

Science and reason derive from Creationist worldview, the naturalism worldview logically leads to doubt about the validity of the rational processes needed to do science. Science/mathematics/logic/morality can't exist without Creationism worldview; naturalism has no explanation where science comes from. How would science be possible in chance universe? We trust senses, trust reality. Naturalism worldview how can anything be reliable?
46 posted on 07/28/2019 3:19:36 PM PDT by TheBigJ
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To: Nifster

obviously you have no scientific background.


47 posted on 07/28/2019 3:46:06 PM PDT by TexasGator (Z1z)
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To: Nifster

obviously you have no scientific background.


48 posted on 07/28/2019 3:46:06 PM PDT by TexasGator (Z1z)
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To: alstewartfan

“You are correct.”

Absolutely.


49 posted on 07/28/2019 3:47:06 PM PDT by TexasGator (Z1z)
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To: Don W
I don’t have enough faith to believe in evolution.

Nor do I. Plus all the earth and it's symbiotic relations would have to occur simultaneously. Our very DNA is designed, not analog. Much as I thought about Darwin, I didn't think very long and hard. More holes than a sponge.

50 posted on 07/28/2019 4:00:44 PM PDT by Karliner (Jeremiah 29:11, Romans 8:28 Isa 17 "This is the end of the beginning" W Churchill)
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To: IndispensableDestiny
Your analogy is flawed.

No, it is not. The lottery is just one example. What are the odds of somebody being in a plane crash and surviving? Fairly poor, but to the survivors, it does not matter. Their statistical state is they survived. Same goes with earthquakes or any other event after the fact.

Respectfully, you still need another analogy, because this one is still fundamentally flawed.

To the survivors, it matters the most, and is the most meaningful to them (as opposed to others who weren't ever involved directly or indirectly). In fact, the greater the odds against survival, or avoidance of catastrophe of an event like this, the proportionally more many survivors will wrestle with the supposed meaning behind it, no? You and I could both cite example after example that demonstrates this. Now, couple this search for meaning with which many survivors wrestle, with a simple exercise of calculating the odds of surviving a plane crash. (You'd of course add up all the plane crashes, and put the numbers of people involved in those crashes in the denominator. Then you'd add up the ones who survived in the numerator, and you'd have an approximate statistical percentage of the odds of surviving.) Thankfully, we have just that statistic calculated for us:

"According to a report from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, among passengers unlucky enough to experience a plane crash between 1983 and 2000, 95.7 percent survived." (reference)
Surviving these types of events against seeming great odds causes our species to wrestle with the fundamental questions involving the meaning of life and the divine. And, you are referencing things as analogies (e.g. lotteries, earthquakes, plane crashes) that are not anywhere close to the odds being discussed in the video (i.e. 1/10^70 or more, iirc). While only a few tough souls are not affected by surviving an earthquake or plane crash, I can't imagine anyone who truly was convinced of the odds like those discussed in the video, who would not do some serious soul searching. So again, I think your analogy actually makes the opposite point.
Back to the original post, challenging Darwin's theory mathematically is pointless. His theory was left behind in the 1930's when evolutionary biology became a discipline. It hasn't stayed put. It's evolving too, with molecular biology and gene sequencing playing a huge role in understanding.
I disagree that it is pointless. The discussion in the video is compelling, and while your observation that Darwin's theory has been left behind in academia, it certainly hasn't been left behind in popular culture. It has been one of the fundamental opinions driving the materialistic world view for over a hundred years, no?
51 posted on 07/28/2019 4:06:09 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: TexasGator

And you would be incorrect


52 posted on 07/28/2019 4:53:12 PM PDT by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds)
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To: TexasGator

Gator, you have been brainwashed, with all due respect.


53 posted on 07/28/2019 4:59:27 PM PDT by alstewartfan ("The strangest women run wild down there Covered head to toe with Fur and hair." Al Stewart in Hanno)
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To: Tennessean4Bush

bfl


54 posted on 07/28/2019 8:51:45 PM PDT by SisterK (its a spiritual war)
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To: catnipman

sorry- i had bookmarked that in my profile page- they must not have the site active anymore-


55 posted on 07/28/2019 8:53:49 PM PDT by Bob434
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To: catnipman

I think this link might be it

http://creationdesign.org/english/whataretheodds.html


56 posted on 07/28/2019 8:56:19 PM PDT by Bob434
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To: catnipman
From that page I lsited:

"Mathematicians agree that any requisite number beyond 1050 has, statistically, a zero probability of occurrence."

I.L. Cohen, Darwin Was Wrong: A Study in Probabilities (New York: NW Research Publications, Inc., 1984), p. 205 (as quoted in Vance Ferrell, The Evolution Handbook (Evolution Facts, Inc., Altamont TN, 2001) p. 260

In order to circumvent the problem of statistical zero, evolutionists often argue that "Given enough time, anything can happen." This is not a rational argument. It proves nothing. It is a reference to practically infinite periods of time that lie beyond statistical zero.

"A further aspect I should like to discuss is what I call the practice of avoiding the conclusion that the probability of a self-producing state is zero ... When for practical purposes the condition of infinite time and matter has to be invoked, the concept of probability is annulled. By such logic we can prove anything ... "

P.T. Mora, The Folly of Probability, as quoted in Origins 13(2):98-104 (1986) Geoscience Research Institute, Loma Lind University, 1986. Emphasis supplied.

In fact the chances of the chance formation of just DNA - much less all of the applications of DNA - are so remote, they are far beyond statistical zero.

"This means that 1089190 DNA molecules, on average, must form to provide the one chance of forming the specific DNA sequence necessary to code 124 proteins. 1089190 DNAs would weigh 1089147 more than the earth ... A quantity of DNA this colossal could never have been formed.

R.L. Wysong, The Creation Evolution Controversy, (Inquiry Press, Midland MI, 1976) p.115, as quoted in The Evolution Handbook (Evolution Facts, Inc., Altamont TN, 2001) p. 261.

But evolutionists argue that there are a multitude of factors that effect and direct changes in species, and the world is a dynamic and changing environment with innumerable forces that cannot be predicted.

This argument is impotent to contest the statistical facts. Because no matter what grandiose theories are proposed, ultimately the sequence of the DNA molecule had to have been worked out and installed by chance and elements until the proper sequence was produced. And there are 1089190 random possibilities to be addressed before deriving the formulae for only 125 proteins. And there are at least 20,000 proteins and enzymes written into the DNA molecule.

And that is only the formula for the proteins. Evolution must still conjure up a sufficient number of fortunate mutations to create the machinery to locate the appropriate protein, copy it and reproduce it. Just locating the appropriate protein is impossibly difficult for anything but supernatural intelligence. The actual length of the DNA strand is

57 posted on 07/28/2019 9:23:59 PM PDT by Bob434
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To: alstewartfan

“Gator, you have been brainwashed, with all due respect.”

So you can’t make an intelligent response.


58 posted on 07/29/2019 6:39:11 AM PDT by TexasGator (Z1z)
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To: TexasGator

No, that would be “guided evolution”, which isn’t really a scientific theory, but a philosophical proposition.


59 posted on 07/29/2019 7:55:59 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Tennessean4Bush
If you have 20 minutes take a listen to a synthetic organic chemist's take on the origin of life.

James Tour: The Origin of Life Has Not Been Explained

60 posted on 07/29/2019 8:08:35 AM PDT by SuperSonic (If I had a dog it would look like the one Obama ate!)
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