K-12: Killing Democracy

Rudolf Flesch, in his 1955 book, noted that "things have changed in the last 10, 20 years. For the first time in history, American parents see their children getting less education than they got themselves. Their sons and daughters come home from school and they can't read the newspaper; they can't spell simple words like February or Wednesday; they don't know the difference between Austria and Australia. The fathers and mothers don't know the reason for this, but they know that something terrible has happened to their most precious dreams and aspirations[.]"

Isn't it beautiful – the way Flesch perceives the decline of American civilization from two tiny examples? Austria and Australia look alike. What's the big deal about telling them apart? Such casual imprecision is how students think today and is the essence of our problem. Flesch remains The Man in American education. Early on, he grasped the garish symptoms of the country's intellectual death spiral. A school system that doesn't teach children the difference between days of the week and months of the year? Well, there's little hope for it.

Even as the Education Establishment insisted that American children read, write, and spell better than ever, Flesch proved the absurdity of this claim. He saw the country's academic decline; he saw the intellectual fabric of the country start to unravel. "The American dream is, essentially, equal opportunity through free education for all. This dream is beginning to vanish in a country where the public schools are falling down on the job[.]"

Please read that three times. There should be symphonic accompaniment with big drums. The American dream is vanishing; equal opportunity through free education is fading. All of this was stated back in 1955, in Flesch's famous book, Why Johnny Can't Read.

“As a Christian, you understand why Jesus was born to Mary (a virgin). You understand why he ministered to men on earth. You understand why he had to die for them as typified by the sacrificial lamb going back to Adam, once Adam was cast out of the Garden of Eden. That sacrificial lamb ritual had no sigificance once our sacrifiial lamb Jesus Christ was crucified and died. You are not a sacrificial lamb.”

1 Peter 1:20

“Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,”

Christ was predetermined as the sacrificial Lamb of God....he wasn’t plan “B” if Adam failed.

“Romans 8:17 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”

Does this say...”if indeed we share in “some” of his sufferings”??????

Indeed, you are not prepared for that which is coming every believer in Christ.

“You are not asked to die for mankind, to purchase their souls back. Jesus Christ had to die. He came to die. He could not fight it. It was his duty to submit to it.”

Let us see.....hmmmm....No self-sacrifice????

“Philippians 2:30 because he almost died for the work of Christ. He risked his life to make up for the help you yourselves could not give me.”

This just one of many examples that defy your carnal logic.

“Yes, not only did Jesus have all the resources of the universe at his disposal, but even His angels from heaven had to keep themselves in check. They could not intercede on His behalf. Jesus was not abandoned here. A part of the host from heaven was there, with Him looking on in horror, and they could do nothing. They went through that for us.”

“They could not intercede on His behalf.”

“They could not”....because they were forbidden by the very sacrificial Lamb of God that foreknew his destiny....for the sake of all mankind, but also....all creation.

If you want me to continue with the rest of your post....line by line....please let me know.

I will be praying for you.

- My comments

= Your comments

Large Text > my response

- As a Christian, you understand why Jesus was born to Mary (a virgin). You understand why he ministered to men on earth. You understand why he had to die for them as typified by the sacrificial lamb going back to Adam, once Adam was cast out of the Garden of Eden. That sacrificial lamb ritual had no significance once our sacrificial lamb Jesus Christ was crucified and died. You are not a sacrificial lamb.

= 1 Peter 1:20
= “Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,”
= Christ was predetermined as the sacrificial Lamb of God....he wasn’t plan “B” if Adam failed.

Please read my words again carefully. I did not state or infer that Jesus was in effect a "Plan B". The inception of using a lamb as sacrifice to point forward to Jesus death on the cross is what was instituted after sin. It would have been pointless to do so prior to sin. Further, it is a foundational acceptance amongst Christians that God has knowledge of everything past, present, and future. You would probably do well to accept that other Christians besides yourself are aware of this. It would both allow you to see things in their proper light, and it would help you to avoid insulting someone who might be a new Christian, thus helping to drive them away, as a self-proclaimed "really savvy Christian" corrects and then offends them greviously in error.

- You are not asked to die for mankind, to purchase their souls back. Jesus Christ had to die. He came to die. He could not fight it. It was his duty to submit to it.
= “Romans 8:17 17
= Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”
= Does this say...”if indeed we share in “some” of his sufferings”??????
= Indeed, you are not prepared for that which is coming every believer in Christ.
= Let us see.....hmmmm....No self-sacrifice????

We are not asked to die for mankind to purchase their souls back. If we come into a situation not related to our beliefs in God, we do have a right to defend ourselves. If a man tries to harm your family, you should defend with prejudice your family to the full extent you can. If you are challenged by a group or the government to declare the Christian God not to be the ruler of the universe, it's a different matter. I would say even this would be predicated on the premise you could not avoid answering to the authority over the issue. I do not buy into the idea I should stand by and watch my wife and children be destroyed, if I could physically prevent it. If I we were helpless in front of the government, then I think we should pronounce our belief in and dedication to God.

In some settings, I don't think we need to lie down and die. In some settings I don't think we can avoid it.

As a Christian, I would expect you to understand this.

= “Philippians 2:30 because he almost died for the work of Christ. He risked his life to make up for the help you yourselves could not give me.”

= This just one of many examples that defy your carnal logic.

I'm not sure if you'll grasp this, but you are an abusive Christian. Your attempt at an insult here is illogical. I have given Biblical examples of God backing armies and others in using brutal force to defend themselves. Is that evidence of a "Carnal" God? What is the story of David, if not this very thing? I did not state that Christians would never be called on to die for their beliefs, but stopping someone from robing your home, raping your wife or daughter, or interceding with force to stop someone from killing any of them or yourself is not evil. It is standing up to evil.

It is illogical to claim that we are all called on to sacrifice our lives. If this were true, Christianity would not exist. Christians would all be dead. Once word got out that they were all pushovers for any sort of evil, they would be vulnerable to every attack for any cause. God does not call on each and every one of us to submit to death when attacked by evil people.

- Yes, not only did Jesus have all the resources of the universe at his disposal, but even His angels from heaven had to keep themselves in check. They could not intercede on His behalf. Jesus was not abandoned here. A part of the host from heaven was there, with Him looking on in horror, and they could do nothing. They went through that for us.
- They could not intercede on His behalf.
- = “They could not”....because they were forbidden by the very sacrificial Lamb of God that foreknew his destiny....for the sake of all mankind, but also....all creation.

Back to this again. First of all, you jumped to an unsupportable conclusion by refuting what wasn't said or implied, and now you're back to doing it again.

If you want me to continue with the rest of your post....line by line....please let me know.

You are welcome to do whatever you like. I would ask you to please refrain from being wildly off base as you were above.

I will be praying for you.

Good. While you're at it, pray for forgiveness.

“As a Christian, you understand why Jesus was born to Mary (a virgin). You understand why he ministered to men on earth. You understand why he had to die for them as typified by the sacrificial lamb going back to Adam, once Adam was cast out of the Garden of Eden. That sacrificial lamb ritual had no significance once our sacrificial lamb Jesus Christ was crucified and died. You are not a sacrificial lamb.”

So the the martyrs in Christ were fools for going forth with the gospel without a weapon to protect themselves????

Act 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man’s feet, whose name was Saul.

“Please read my words again carefully. I did not state or infer that Jesus was in effect a “Plan B”. The inception of using a lamb as sacrifice to point forward to Jesus death on the cross is what was instituted after sin. It would have been pointless to do so prior to sin.”

“1 Peter 1:20
= “Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,”
= Christ was predetermined as the sacrificial Lamb of God....he wasn’t plan “B” if Adam failed.
“

Then Peter was in error to have stated Christ was the Lamb of God prior to sin?

“I do not buy into the idea I should stand by and watch my wife and children be destroyed, if I could physically prevent it.”

There was a time when defending our country with weapons meant something, not just for the sake this country, but also for the world.

We are at the turning point when the Beast will not allow this.

You need to prepare yourself and yours for Christ’s return, and all the persecution that will follow.

There are 2 seminal points in the scripture that you should take note of:

1st: The rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem.
2nd: The utter destruction of Damascus.

The Temple is self-explanatory, Damascus is not.

Damascus has been conquered during its history....but never destroyed. Damascus has the unique status of being the oldest, continuously inhabited city on the face of the earth. Not the oldest, but the oldest continuously inhabited.

Being a prepper will not save you and yours, only Faith, Hope and Love.

Faith begets knowledge, Hope begets wisdom and Love begets understanding.

Fast approaching are the times when weapons are detrimental to your continued walk of Faith. Spiritually, weapons will become a crutch.

As a Christian, you understand why Jesus was born to Mary (a virgin). You understand why he ministered to men on earth. You understand why he had to die for them as typified by the sacrificial lamb going back to Adam, once Adam was cast out of the Garden of Eden. That sacrificial lamb ritual had no significance once our sacrificial lamb Jesus Christ was crucified and died. You are not a sacrificial lamb.

I meant just what I said here. We are not called on to sacrifice our lives to atone for the sins of man. Jesus was the only one who could do that. He did.

It bothers me that you attempt to address these things with authority, and don't grasp what is being said related to truth.

This is the second time you have challenged me on this. You were off base both times.

Once you tried to take me to task as if I had said Jesus was "plan b". I hadn't.

Now you are trying to take me to task as if what I said here related to martyrs. It doesn't. Martyrs are not asked to sacrifice themselves to redeem man. While Martyrs will lose their lives to the cause, they should not be mixed in with the above comments of mine. It's a totally different issue.

I addressed dying to redeem man. You are addressing dying to express devotion to God. While that is a decent thing to address in the proper context, I had not addressed that aspect of Jesus death. Why then did you in rebuttal?

This causes me to wonder if you understand these issues. They are different. Do you know that?

Originally I made these comments in reference to the idea we should not defend ourselves against evil players. It was my premise that when confronted with evil people, we should defend ourselves. I stated there was no reason to submit to death when we were not being asked to renounce our devotion to God.

I gave you examples of God approving of military and other acts standing up to evil. You ignored them.

So the the martyrs in Christ were fools for going forth with the gospel without a weapon to protect themselves????

I didn't state this. I didn't infer this. Once again, you're not quite getting the nuances here. As a Christian you should.

My comments above did not relate to martyrdom. You tried to bring that in to take me to task, but it was not related to any concept I raised.

All well and good, but completely off topic. I did not make any remarks about martyrs, and the comments I did make did address another concept. If you are able, I would appreciate it if you would remain on topic.

Please read my words again carefully. I did not state or infer that Jesus was in effect a “Plan B”. The inception of using a lamb as sacrifice to point forward to Jesus death on the cross is what was instituted after sin. It would have been pointless to do so prior to sin.

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Christ was predetermined as the sacrificial Lamb of God....he wasn’t plan “B” if Adam failed.

Then Peter was in error to have stated Christ was the Lamb of God prior to sin?

I haven't said or inferred in any of my statements on this thread, that Jesus was "plan b". This has been called to your attention. You have ignored my clarification to attempt to charge me once again falsely. I believe this is the third time in all. Why would you do that? As a Christian do you believe it is reasoned to charge someone falsely?

I do not buy into the idea I should stand by and watch my wife and children be destroyed, if I could physically prevent it.

You are confusing something here in that I wouldn’t protect my family under my roof....I would, however, within this same thread with “Elsie”, I stated I would, but, if that obligation no longer existed, I would turn the other cheek unto death for the Gospel of Christ.

I know this. You stated you would sacrifice yourself. For what? That is wholly misguided. It is why I raised the issue of Christians not being required to sacrifice their lives rather than stand up to evil. Even the Angels of God took action to move Lot and his family out of Sodom, rather than allow the mob to kill them. You should know this.

There was a time when defending our country with weapons meant something, not just for the sake this country, but also for the world.

"Was" is a massive error here. Our nation still stands up for good in this world. It's defense of Israel is almost Biblical in scope. I'm sorry, but you are woefully off base. We are not at a time when we should simply pack it in and let Islam, Russia, Iran, China, or another nation/ideology subjugate a region of it, or the world. The death and misery in the world would explode. We are humanity's last defense on planet earth, before Christ returns. We do what we can until we can no longer do it. To refuse to, would be evil.

We are at the turning point when the Beast will not allow this.

I'll let God be the judge of that. The Beast has no power over Him.

You need to prepare yourself and yours for Christ’s return, and all the persecution that will follow.

While I believe this, I would not toss it out in a discussion with another Christian FReeper. It's just condescending and irrelevant to the issues at hand.

There are 2 seminal points in the scripture that you should take note of:

1st: The rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem.
2nd: The utter destruction of Damascus.

The Temple is self-explanatory, Damascus is not.

Damascus has been conquered during its history....but never destroyed. Damascus has the unique status of being the oldest, continuously inhabited city on the face of the earth. Not the oldest, but the oldest continuously inhabited.

This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand either. I don't appreciate you taking the tone of preaching to me, because you stepped in it by not grasping the subject matter and focusing on it accurately.

Being a prepper will not save you and yours, only Faith, Hope and Love.

This is mindless pap. We should do what we can to prepare to take care of ourselves. When that runs out or times overtake us, then sure, we should fall back on faith in God.

Do you know that certain Christians have said things like this since the 1970s? Where would Christians have been, if they acted like the next day was the end of the world, since then? Mature Christians know that God expects us to help ourselves too.

Faith begets knowledge, Hope begets wisdom and Love begets understanding.

Fast approaching are the times when weapons are detrimental to your continued walk of Faith. Spiritually, weapons will become a crutch.

Who doesn't know this? Christians have been well versed in the apocalyptic world view of end times. Throwing this out into conversations where you have missed the true intent a number of times, is not helpful.

“Once you tried to take me to task as if I had said Jesus was “plan b”. I hadn’t.”

Yes you did.

“It doesn’t. Martyrs are not asked to sacrifice themselves to redeem man.”

Never said they were redeemers, that was your hangup.

“I addressed dying to redeem man. You are addressing dying to express devotion to God. While that is a decent thing to address in the proper context, I had not addressed that aspect of Jesus death. Why then did you in rebuttal?”

Unfortunately you didn’t “address that glory of Jesus’s death.”

“Act 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man’s feet, whose name was Saul.

All well and good, but completely off topic.”

The Truth is not compartmentalized, it is one and does not disagree with itself.

“I know this. You stated you would sacrifice yourself. For what? That is wholly misguided. It is why I raised the issue of Christians not being required to sacrifice their lives rather than stand up to evil. Even the Angels of God took action to move Lot and his family out of Sodom, rather than allow the mob to kill them. You should know this.”

By this reasoning, the martyrs indeed did not walk in Christ as you imagine....where was God’s intervention for them?

“I’ll let God be the judge of that. The Beast has no power over Him.”

So, God is not allowing the beast to reveal himself so that complete darkness that changes itself in the false light, won’t be forever judged? Sounds like an eternal struggle, by your dogma, with no end. By your mantra, we will always be bound in eternal conflict with the beast....ergo, darkness.

“While I believe this, I would not toss it out in a discussion with another Christian FReeper. It’s just condescending and irrelevant to the issues at hand.”

I’m pretty sure very few FReeper’s are following this thread anymore....????

“Being a prepper will not save you and yours, only Faith, Hope and Love.

This is mindless pap. We should do what we can to prepare to take care of ourselves. When that runs out or times overtake us, then sure, we should fall back on faith in God.”

So, until then, you have no need now to have faith in God, only when it is time to “fall back on faith in God.”

It may have been very unintentional for you to have revealed this, but this indicates a religious man, instead of a spiritual man.

Again, I’ll pray for you....

9 Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

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