Posted on 02/20/2016 10:09:42 PM PST by Swordmaker
According to Bloomberg News, the White House convened a secret meeting around Thanksgiving, after agreeing not to seek legislation to force companies to install backdoors in mobile devices that encrypt data, to work secretly to do it through other means.
Apparently, "other means" may include what we are seeing with the Apple v. FBI Court Order.
Link only due to copyright concerns:
Secret Memo Details U.S.'s Broader Strategy to Crack Phones.
And the twaddle is what, specifically?
The FBI asked for the SW. They did not demand it but said Apple “may” supply it as long as they tie the SW to the phone. They gave two examples of how to tie it to the phone. First the serial number which is on the back of the phone. But the serial number is not accessible in SW as of iOS 8. Apple provides an alternative ID on the screen. The IMEI is on the SIM and the SIM is removable so it obviously cannot be used to ID a phone.
No one knows what UID was burned into that ROM at manufacture was. The UID, a Device Group ID (GID), and the user's input passcode all make up only HALF of the AES key. The other HALF is made up of initially read random inputs from the camera, microphone, and accelerometer, as well as other sensors at the first startup which are combined by an algorithm and then stored for use thereafter. Those stored random inputs are combined with the UID, GID, and user's Passcode, all entangled to actually create the large alphanumeric and symbol KEY for the encryption, from which a comparison HASH is made and stored. The final size of that KEY is indeterminate, but it is at least 132 characters in length and at most 256.
Since no one knows what the possible starting points are, Ray76, there is no way to "spin through possible salts and trying each key." Your proposal is suggesting trying every possible key there could be. I don't think you have a clue about the magnitude of that number.
Apple's protocol allows those characters used for the KEY to be any of the characters reachable from the Apple Keyboard. There are 233 of those. Any one of those characters could be in any one or more of the positions of the AES KEY. Using the smallest possible of 132 characters, each of which could be one of those 233 characters, means that there are 132233 possible KEYS to the data on just one iPhone.
1,240,869,102,926,930,271,860,985,237,597,132,425,094,84,408,742,359,858,346,588,174,075,897,786,265,565,693,187,489,738,175,307,484,703,338,748,755,651,745, 687,911,932,171,965,871,748,608,452,386,133,161,972,124,255,648,175,113,747,563,518,247,967,495,956,480,892,924,951,094,785,485,948,340,401,946,603,425,451, 838,237,819,250,367,507,277,540,845,077,389,087,275,271,651,691,442,328,996,896,558,444,716,702,538,449,350,221,955,756,192,906,748,429,543,759,883,093,149, 245,360,855,972,935,011,836,288,581,968,306,133,483,294,124,983,089,110,520,815,210,577,460,928,656,664,335,527,277,252,472,574,518,381,991,908,297,444,937, 577,812,607,343,116,630,498,476,032 Possible KEYS
I've done the math to calculate how many years using a supercomputer capable of comparing 300,000 potential KEYs every second--which is a very complex task involving loading a possible KEY, applying the KEY to a set of the encrypted data, testing to see if that data resolves into anything intelligible in any known language, image compression format, sound format, video format, and other types of possible stored data, etc., deciding if it is a pass or no pass, then moving on to the next KEY. When you start with such a large number of KEYS to test, no matter how fast you can process them, it is going to take a LONG TIME to try ever single KEY to find the right one.
If your supercomputer can process 300,000 KEYS per second, you can figure out how many it can process in any particular time period. For example 18,000,000 per minute, 1,080,000,000 per hour, 25,920,000,000 per day, 9,460,800,000,000 and so on. However, using one of the online very large number calculators provides the answer to how many years it would take to try every KEY. First you let it calculate exactly what 132233 actually equals to give you the ridiculously HUGE number of possible KEYS you want to try. We already know that our Supercomputer can try about 9,460,800,000,000 possible KEYS every year. So we will divide that into that HUGE number of total possible KEYS to find out how many YEARS it would take to try ALL of them to find the right one. Simple arithmetic, right? With me, so far, Ray? Now comes the mind blowing point. Here is the answer to how many years it would take, which that on-line large number calculator totaled for us:
13,115,900,377,631,175,713,057,936,301,339,552,945,785,177,653,302,031,365,908,609,639,343,161,917,128,117,409,467,459,218,597,527,133,364,910,869,657,084,568, 737,520,312,443,543,014,185,740,358,757,521,771,110,715,335,719,507,203,150,211,213,424,604,257,196,103,175,730,497,926,759,465,197,488,790,229,518,164,620,141, 829,364,363,215,296,543,721,997,863,720,538,989,477,812,811,002,134,797,961,952,976,143,934,809,883,965,621,908,949,867,532,177,991,687,794,171,016,113,368, 938,776,100,859,529,457,189,874,884,379,067,657,505,177,478,554,722,731,186,641,453,252,225,674,819,838,415,065,583,520,898,695,881,099,727,025,720,613,247, 569,692,110 YEARS TO TRY ALL OF THOSE KEYS !
This whole issue would not be around if not for the incompetence of the govt employees who tampered with the evidence i.e. messed with the phone. Apple would have already have provided the data.
The mantra about “court order” is cute. Yep, there is a request for a court order and there is a process. Apple is merrily following the process where they can disagree and appeal and do what any patriotic person who fears tyranny would do. You set great store in the court so you should welcome the wending way that is inherent in the legal process.
Fortunately as I pointed out to you earlier (next hearing in a month) the legal process can take a long time. By the time this finally gets through the courts, Apple or some competitor will have a new completely unbreakable phone for sale. In the meantime people will erase anything embarassing off their phones and the govt (if they win) will have a back door that only helps with phones already in their possession as evidence.
This Court Order is unprecedented. It is treading new legal ground. There is no law allowing the Judge to go where she is going with this order to demand that Apple create a specific product only for the government's benefit that actually will damage Apple and Apple's large user base. That is NOVEL and has no basis in history or legal precedence.
Apple has complied with legal search warrants in the past where they've had the power to do so and the data they authorities were seeking. Never before has the government required someone to CREATE what they need to get what they are seeking.
They identified the specific device the order pertains to.
The reason the FBI suggested using the IMEI is that is one of the few ID's that can be looked up when a phone is locked. The other is the serial number printed on the back. They asked Verizon for it and Verizon looked it up. But the IMEI is on the SIM, not on the phone. Taking that SIM out and putting it in another phone means the FBI can run the SW on that new phone. Therefore the SW cannot be tied to the phone as requested in the order.
YOU don't know that. You think you know more than the people who designed the systems do. I don't think you do. The mere act of creating the backdoor means other governments will DEMAND access to it.
If any actionable data comes from this breach of the iPhone and arrests and trials result, Apple will be brought into discovery by the defense attorneys who have every right to ask "How was it done?" and demand for their experts to see the code that was used. . . which the judge will order released to them. This has happened before in such trials. The code becomes part of the trial record. . . and WILL be released. It is inevitable. Nothing stays secret no matter if a judge claims it is sealed. Apple has had this happen to it before with company secrets. Forced to reveal Company secrets under court seal, only to find them in the public knowledge because of bribes, errors, or just sheer incompetence.
The SN uniquely identifies the phone to which the order pertains. Within that phone is a UID accessible to software. The UID is unique to that device and is immutable. The UID is not immediately accessible to the court, the SN is immediately accessible to the court. Either can be used to uniquely identify a particular device.
This “fears tyranny” bit is nonsense. That applies to NSA’s actions. It does not apply to retrieval of data from a specific device pursuant to a court order.
You are making the problem larger than it is.
The key is stored. It can be retrieved.
> ...as I pointed out to you earlier (next hearing in a month) the legal process can take a long time.
This is because Apple refuses to cooperate fully.
> Apple or some competitor will have a new completely unbreakable phone for sale. In the meantime people will erase anything embarassing off their phones and the govt (if they win) will have a back door that only helps with phones already in their possession as evidence.
You have fallen victim to Apple’s PR campaign. The FBI is not asking for the capability to remotely access data on any device at any time. The FBI wants access to data on a particular device. The hardware and software to provide that access can remain in Apple’s possession.
Unless I am missing something, until the legal process is followed to completion we won’t know if the court order is valid or enforceable or even technically feasible. Expect many machinations, we will all be patient as we watch the legal grass grow.
That's not what the Court Order specifically states, Ray. It says the FBI is to be provided with the software . . . It's quite explicit.
". . . providing the FBI with a signed iPhone Software file, recovery bundle or other Software image File ("SIF") that can be loaded onto the SUBJECT DEVICE. The SIF will load and run from Random Access Memory ("RAM") and will not modify the i/os on the actual phone, the user data partition or system partition on the devices's flash memory. . . The SIF will be loaded via Device Firmware Upgrade ("DFU") mode, recovery mode or other applicable mode available to the FBI."
". . . providing the FBI" . . . That's very explicit.
From the Dictionary:
Provide: verb
From the Thesaurus:
Provide:
WORDS MEAN THINGS, Ray76, no matter how YOU really WANT to twist them.
The court order cannot be read any other way but that the FBI was to be handed any software that Apple developed that succeeded in getting into the iPhone, regardless of WHERE it was done. Attorney's are skilled at getting camels through eyes of needles. . . and this is a slam dunk in that Court Order. I've read enough of them in my career. I have an attorney on my payroll even now. He agrees, there is no other way to read that.
The order permits Apple to take possession of the device to load programs in its own secure location. From the order:
The SIF will be loaded on the SUBJECT DEVICE at either a government facility, or alternatively, at an Apple facility; if the latter, Apple shall provide the government with remote access to the SUBJECT DEVICE through a computer allowing the government to conduct passcode recovery analysis.
Now that I think about it the solution is extremely simple.
The boot ROM contains Apple’s public key and the bootstrap loader. The public key is used to verify programs run by the bootstrap program prior to running them.
The boot ROM will run the Low-Level Bootloader (which is signed by Apple), then iBoot runs (it too is signed by Apple) and in turn launches the iOS kernel. Each of these programs are updated by Apple from time to time. The updates are provided by services at apple.com. Those services use the device UID to ensure that only the latest versions are downloaded, and downloaded only once.
It would be very easy to place the subject device and a server on their own network and provide updates to either the Low-Level Bootloader or iBoot, which ever counts the sign-on attempts. Rather than incrementing the counter every sign-on attempt, set it to 1.
The auto-erase function can be disabled by a “one line change” and a wifi connection to a server containing the modded software to download.
NO, NO, NO. You think you "know" so much that just isn't true, Ray. It's no wonder that you make such asinine assumptions.
The UID is NOT accessible to software from outside the processor. That is one of the reasons it cannot be found. It is only accessible to the built-in apps in the PROCESSOR. SHEESH! How many times have we written this on this forum? No external software is permitted by the system to read the UID.
The Serial Number is really not used by Apple for control of software access or installation.
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