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Secret Memo Details U.S.’s Broader Strategy to Crack Phones (Link Only Due to Copyright concerns)
Bloomberg Business | February 19, 2016 — 2:00 AM PST | By Michael Riley

Posted on 02/20/2016 10:09:42 PM PST by Swordmaker

According to Bloomberg News, the White House convened a secret meeting around Thanksgiving, after agreeing not to seek legislation to force companies to install backdoors in mobile devices that encrypt data, to work secretly to do it through other means.

Apparently, "other means" may include what we are seeing with the Apple v. FBI Court Order.

Link only due to copyright concerns:

Secret Memo Details U.S.'s Broader Strategy to Crack Phones.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: California; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: apple; applepinglist; california; encryption; sanbernadino; sanbernardino
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To: DuhYup
Reading the filing: with the data on the cloud, the data is not self destructed (as it is on the phone) if too many attempts at guessing the password are made. Also attempts can be made extremely quickly.

Don't need a password since you get infinite attempts at high speed.

That is why the govt, in the filing, is demanding that Apple create a back channel around the self destruct and attempt delay on the phone. i.e. infiite attempts at high speed

The govt evidence tampering (that prevented getting the data onto the Cloud) was discovered when Apple was in the process of providing the data voluntarily from the Cloud.

It's not too difficult to read the filing despite the legalese.

Even better, the federales could brute force crack the iCloud data, and I bet that laboriously discovered password would unlock the phone.

61 posted on 02/21/2016 4:39:47 PM PST by null and void (This is "They live", and most people would rather fight you than put on the glasses...)
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To: Ray76
Apple is helping terrorists.

The less damaging set of terrorists, anyway...

62 posted on 02/21/2016 4:42:51 PM PST by null and void (This is "They live", and most people would rather fight you than put on the glasses...)
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To: Ray76

The government bringing in millions of persons who hate American freedoms is also the government demanding access to everyone’s personal data. F that.


63 posted on 02/21/2016 4:42:55 PM PST by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: hoosierham

Data collection without a warrant has no bearing whatsoever on the legitimate need for the information on this one particular device. Data collection without a warrant can not be tolerated, however it is not the issue here.

This is not a case of indiscriminate data collection, which is an issue separate and distinct from this issue and which has no bearing in this case. The issue in this case is the legitimate need to information on a particular device. There is no legitimate reason for Apple to not render all assistance necessary to retrieval of the data on this device.

Injecting objections to indiscriminate data collection without a warrant is a diversion. It is a strawman.


64 posted on 02/21/2016 4:50:02 PM PST by Ray76 (Judge Roy Moore for Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)
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To: Ray76
If any signature checks fail the boot program halts and goes to "device firmware upgrade" mode, aka "reset mode". This is when data will be destroyed. (What that destruction method is, I don't know. Is it set to x00?) Not starting the boot program seems to be a solution.

The data "destruction" is erasing the AES key. No data is actually destroyed. The AES key is not initialized (your word was salt) by the passcode that would be impossible, too short. Nor is it initialized by the passcode hash even though that is possible. I assume that's what you mean by salt. Salt is used with a hash, not encryption and decryption. Those use an IV.

What actually happens is this: the passcode is salted and hashed and expanded using UID (expansion being a complex hashing process to create a KEK) If it successfully decrypts the AES key you are in. It is certainly plausible to bypass key erasure unless there is a match, that should all be programmed in the firmware and modifiable. But the FBI wants an entirely new channel to do their passcode testing. They suggest bluetooth, wifi and I forgot their other suggestion. IOW, they have no robot finger to type passcodes.

65 posted on 02/21/2016 5:18:42 PM PST by palmer (Net "neutrality" = Obama turning the internet over to foreign enemies)
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To: Ray76

The Constitution helps terrorists but we still need it. You are of the opinion that we don’’t need Apple and their strong data protection. That is false in the long run. Someone else will do it, it is inevitable. It won’t be bypassed by a new OS load. The new OS load will require a passcode, end of story. It is false in the short run too. You are ignoring that a stolen iPhone can’t be cracked by hostile governments.


66 posted on 02/21/2016 5:21:47 PM PST by palmer (Net "neutrality" = Obama turning the internet over to foreign enemies)
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To: Ray76
on a particular device

It is safe to assume that the FBI will want this over and over. Then the question is if or when they will demand the SW to run it themselves.

67 posted on 02/21/2016 5:23:03 PM PST by palmer (Net "neutrality" = Obama turning the internet over to foreign enemies)
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To: palmer

> You are of the opinion that we don’t need Apple and their strong data protection.

You are mistaken.

Apple refuses to comply with a court order. THAT is the problem.


68 posted on 02/21/2016 5:27:24 PM PST by Ray76 (Judge Roy Moore for Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)
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To: DesertRhino
Well,, I sure feel sorry for that Tim Scott guy.

I wonder if he knows Jim Thompson?

69 posted on 02/21/2016 5:29:34 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: palmer

Sure sure, stick it to the man. In reality you’re sticking it to your fellow Americans. We have laws, obey them. That includes obeying court orders.


70 posted on 02/21/2016 5:30:07 PM PST by Ray76 (Judge Roy Moore for Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)
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To: Ray76

The court order is asking for a SW load that will remove the protection on every phone, a universal upgrade. The court order then jabbers about tying the upgrade to the serial number or the IMEI on the SIM. But the SIM can be put in any other phone so that suggestion is ridiculous. The serial number is not available by SW.


71 posted on 02/21/2016 5:33:06 PM PST by palmer (Net "neutrality" = Obama turning the internet over to foreign enemies)
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To: Ray76
Technology will make the court order obsolete. Simply by rejecting any SW reload without a valid passcode. The reason they don't now is it does actually brick any phone with existing flawed SW.

We have a simple choice, go with state-mandated luddite SW and watch some other country create it, or let it happen here and deal with it. We can deal with it with better intel and policing but keeping new Muslims out would help as well.

72 posted on 02/21/2016 5:36:24 PM PST by palmer (Net "neutrality" = Obama turning the internet over to foreign enemies)
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To: palmer

> The court order is asking for a SW load that will remove the protection on every phone, a universal upgrade.

No they’re not. They hardware and software can remain in Apple’s possession. The FBI wants access to the data.


73 posted on 02/21/2016 5:39:52 PM PST by Ray76 (Judge Roy Moore for Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)
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To: Ray76

Court order says Apple “may” deliver the SW to the FBI for them to use. The problem with letting Apple do forensics will crop up in the first child porn case where the only evidence that the perp did child porn is on the phone. That will make the conviction harder to get. Therefore FBI will ask for the SW in that case to run themselves.


74 posted on 02/21/2016 5:43:14 PM PST by palmer (Net "neutrality" = Obama turning the internet over to foreign enemies)
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To: Ray76
The murder of 6 million Jews, gypsies, gays, Catholics, mental defectives and other undesirables was perfectly legal in Nazi Germany.

Does it being perfectly legal make it right?

How did that go over in Nuremberg?

The Nazis were able to pull it off because no one said NEIN!.

Apple, right or wrong, is saying NO!

75 posted on 02/21/2016 5:51:57 PM PST by null and void (This is "They live", and most people would rather fight you than put on the glasses...)
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To: palmer

The hardware and software can remain in Apple’s possession. The FBI wants access to the data. The FBI does not want Apple to conduct the search.


76 posted on 02/21/2016 5:52:20 PM PST by Ray76 (Judge Roy Moore for Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)
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To: null and void

There is no legitimate reason to not comply with the court order.

Your analogy portraying Apple’s actions as standing up to Nazis is moronic and offensive.


77 posted on 02/21/2016 5:54:40 PM PST by Ray76 (Judge Roy Moore for Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)
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To: Ray76
The FBI wants access to the data. The FBI does not want Apple to conduct the search.

Apple will taint the data by loading a brand new black box OS on the phone. No defense lawyer is going to draw a line between Apple loading code and FBI doing the search. They will use the Apple manipulation to discredit the data.

Also there are plenty of other reasons FBI will eventually ask for this SW. One is the nuclear bomb going off if we don't break into a phone in time. Assuming there are no other phones is silly, there are much more valuable uncracked phones than this one. Assuming the SW load can be tied to a phone is a stretch. FBI did not make that case in the order, just hand waved it.

Bottom line: FBI gets SW to load on any phone. Like I said before, all that means is that eventually terrorists will use the unbreakable (except by PLA) China-OS phone. That will be to the great detriment of the US.

78 posted on 02/21/2016 6:02:13 PM PST by palmer (Net "neutrality" = Obama turning the internet over to foreign enemies)
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To: Ray76
There is no legitimate reason to not comply with the court order.

Only the reasons I have given. You might not like the fact that technology will leave the FBI in the dust but it essentially has and really will.

79 posted on 02/21/2016 6:03:41 PM PST by palmer (Net "neutrality" = Obama turning the internet over to foreign enemies)
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To: palmer

Which is why the court order must be complied with.


80 posted on 02/21/2016 6:05:51 PM PST by Ray76 (Judge Roy Moore for Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)
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