Posted on 02/17/2016 3:58:16 PM PST by Kaslin
In a very troubling video, Theodore Shoebat, son of former Muslim Walid Shoebat, has claimed that if "sodomites" had walked into the Temple of Jerusalem, Jesus would have killed them.
This is absolutely outrageous, totally unscriptural, and downright dangerous.
Mr. Shoebat, I urge you to repent.
To be perfectly clear, I agree with Theodore that homosexual practice is detestable in God's sight (as stated plainly in the Scriptures); I totally oppose same-sex "marriage"; and I firmly believe that homosexual activism is the principle threat to our freedoms of religion, speech, and conscience.
I also share Theodore's abhorrence of the abusive acts of homosexual predators, just as I abhor the abusive acts of heterosexual predators.
At the same time, I categorically reject his encouragement of violent acts against homosexual men and women, and I renounce his statement that Jesus would have killed homosexuals who walked into the Temple.
That is utter rubbish.
After referring to gays as "faggots," Theodore said on his video, "When you have the sodomites coming out into the streets [meaning, in a gay pride parade] and the Christians come and beat them up, the people who are beating up the sodomites don't really get punished because the society is so conditioned that way. If there's a law written in the hearts of the people, then the people who fighting this evil, physically, with their hands, fighting them, beating them up, those people are not going to get in trouble."
But, he added, "We don't have that in America."
So, Theodore is telling us that it's a good thing when "Christians" physically attack gays and lesbians who are marching down the street in a gay pride event, in particular when these "Christians" do it in a country that will not punish them. And the reason the country will not punish them is because "there's a law written in the hearts of the people," meaning, the law of God that detests homosexual practice.
Not only is this not supported anywhere in the New Testament, which teaches us to overcome evil with good (see, for example, Romans 12:17-21), but it is flatly against the law, since, as much as we may oppose these gay demonstrations, we do not have the right to take the law into our hands and attack homosexual men and women. And if you have God's heart of love and you want to see them saved and transformed, why would you want to beat them up?
The fact that Theodore laments our lack of anti-gay violence is deplorable, and to the extent that he speaks these things as a professing Christian, he hurts the cause of the gospel, brings reproach to the name of Jesus, and blemishes the witness of 99% of true Christians who reject his violent rhetoric.
In fact, after listening to Theodore's words, one can only wonder if he would commend Yishai Schlissel, the ultra-Orthodox Jew who stabbed 6 participants at gay pride event in Jerusalem last year, shortly after being released from prison for stabbing three participants at a similar event in 2005.
Lest you think I'm exaggerating, consider what Theodore said about Jesus Himself, referring to John 2:14-15: "In the Temple, He found the merchants selling oxen, sheep, and doves; also the moneychangers sitting there. Then He made a whip of cords and drove them all out of the Temple, both the sheep and oxen. He dumped out the coins of the moneychangers and overturned their tables" (TLV).
Theodore states, "Jesus Christ took up a whip and beat people up in his Father's temple," adding, "Now imagine if sodomites were in his Father's temple. Jesus would have killed them all. He wouldn't just have hit them; Jesus got violent!"
First, the prophet Isaiah tells us explicitly that Jesus did not get violent: "And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth" (Isa 53:9, ESV, my emphasis).
If Jesus had whipped people bloody, that would have been violence. Instead, He overthrew tables and drove out the vendors, using a whip on the cattle.
So, I'll take Isaiah's word for this rather than Theodore's.
But even if you want to claim that Jesus swung a whip at people to drive them out of the Temple, it's more than a massive jump to claim that, "if sodomites were in his Father's temple, Jesus would have killed them all."
Actually, there's a good chance that there were "sodomites" in the Temple - or, if not "sodomites," then others, like adulterers, who also deserved the death penalty under Old Testament law. (Jeremiah 7:1-11, which underlies the gospel accounts of Jesus' cleansing of the Temple, would suggest that, just as in Jeremiah's day, there were adulterers, murderers, and idolaters who hypocritically worshiped at the Temple in Jerusalem, and all of them were liable to the death penalty at that time.)
Jesus, who knew what was in man (John 2:24-25), surely knew that there were gross sinners in the Temple courts. But He didn't kill them, He died for them.
Not only, then, are Theodore's words terribly dangerous, since some unstable listeners might think they are doing God's service by attacking or even, God forbid, trying to kill homosexual men and women.
But they also bear false witness to the character of Jesus, "who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himselfto Him who judges righteously; who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness-- by whose stripes you were healed" (1 Pet 2:22-24, NKJV).
It is my privilege to work with godly leaders throughout America and around the world, a good number of whom are frontline, fearless Christians who stand firmly against homosexual activism, and every single one of them would join me in renouncing Theodore Shoebat's words.
They do not represent Jesus, they do not represent the spirit or letter of the New Testament, and they do not represent His true followers.
Share this article widely if you agree with me, and let's pray for Theodore to embrace God's heart and submit to God's Word.
Yeah but the author’spoint was that Jesus would not have killed them because he was not violent
Christ would not have had to.
The Jews that He confronted had many problems, including adultery, but it is likely that any persons — having been found by two or more witnesses —engaged in a homosexual act would have been stoned by the people even though the a Romans denied them the legal power of execution. Lax attitudes about homosexuality was not a problem many Jews had. They had the whole sad affair involving those men of Benjamin to recall, at a minimum. This is why we hear more about it once Gentiles are bring dealt with in the Church for some Gentiles did have lax attitudes about homosexuality.
Moreover, had such a thing happened it would not have happened “in the Temple” ... I mean: what idiots are so stupid that they would openly bugger each other in the Temple? That takes a special kind of suicidal stupidity for someone back then to even contemplate!
Yup.
As stated in my follow up comment to my first comment, my PS was not well expressed.
I don’t know if you’ve encountered this, but at time sit seems as if some folks are more put off with Paul saying “and such were some of you” after listing off those who will not enter the Kingdom than they even are by bringing up said list or, for that matter, other such statements.
It’s as if one of the features, I won’t say of a reprobate mind but only of a mindset that seems to trend towards one, is to take a special offense at the suggestion that repentance is even possible. It seems, at least with homosexuality, that its cultural champions deem anyone saying they’ve repented as just kidding themselves ... not just that the polluted culture now demands that there’s nothing to repent of (and likewise calling calls to repentance wrongheaded) but that there can be no repentance ever.
In this the culture basically reduces men from rational creatures able to change their minds to irrational beasts forever bound by their passions.
That was just a random aside, btw.
Second Amendment in action:
Christ said not to oppose Roman rule. So then...
Why did he urge his apostles to go buy swords?
“I carry a sword because a Centurion is too heavy.”
Yea, that rod of iron is going to suck . . .
...especially for dudes who have been sucking rods.
What does a Muslim know about Jesus? Their Koran treats Jesus like a second class prophet.
Plain Scripture ahead!
Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."
Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.
Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.
2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
But there IS hope!!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
Lehi sees a vision of the tree of life—He partakes of its fruit and desires his family to do likewise—He sees a rod of iron, a strait and narrow path, and the mists of darkness that enshroud men—Sariah, Nephi, and Sam partake of the fruit, but Laman and Lemuel refuse. About 600–592 B.C.
1 And it came to pass that we had gathered together all manner of aseeds of every kind, both of grain of every kind, and also of the seeds of fruit of every kind.
2 And it came to pass that while my father tarried in the wilderness he spake unto us, saying: Behold, I have adreamed a dream; or, in other words, I have bseen a cvision.
3 And behold, because of the thing which I have seen, I have reason to rejoice in the Lord because of aNephi and also of Sam; for I have reason to suppose that they, and also many of their seed, will be saved.
4 But behold, aLaman and Lemuel, I fear exceedingly because of you; for behold, methought I saw in my dream, a dark and dreary wilderness.
5 And it came to pass that I saw a aman, and he was dressed in a white brobe; and he came and stood before me.
6 And it came to pass that he spake unto me, and bade me follow him.
7 And it came to pass that as I followed him I beheld myself that I was in a dark and dreary waste.
8 And after I had traveled for the space of many hours in darkness, I began to pray unto the Lord that he would have amercy on me, according to the multitude of his tender mercies.
9 And it came to pass after I had prayed unto the Lord I beheld a large and spacious afield.
10 And it came to pass that I beheld a atree, whose bfruit was desirable to make one chappy.
11 And it came to pass that I did go forth and partake of the afruit thereof; and I beheld that it was most sweet, above all that I ever before tasted. Yea, and I beheld that the fruit thereof was white, to exceed all the bwhiteness that I had ever seen.
12 And as I partook of the fruit thereof it filled my soul with exceedingly great ajoy; wherefore, I began to be bdesirous that my family should partake of it also; for I knew that it was cdesirable above all other fruit.
13 And as I cast my eyes round about, that perhaps I might discover my family also, I beheld a ariver of water; and it ran along, and it was near the tree of which I was partaking the fruit.
14 And I looked to behold from whence it came; and I saw the head thereof a little way off; and at the head thereof I beheld your mother Sariah, and Sam, and aNephi; and they stood as if they knew not whither they should go.
15 And it came to pass that I beckoned unto them; and I also did say unto them with a loud voice that they should come unto me, and partake of the fruit, which was desirable above all other fruit.
16 And it came to pass that they did come unto me and partake of the fruit also.
17 And it came to pass that I was desirous that Laman and Lemuel should come and partake of the fruit also; wherefore, I cast mine eyes towards the head of the river, that perhaps I might see them.
18 And it came to pass that I saw them, but they would anot come unto me and partake of the fruit.
19 And I beheld a arod of iron, and it extended along the bank of the river, and led to the tree by which I stood.
20 And I also beheld a astrait and narrow path, which came along by the rod of iron, even to the tree by which I stood; and it also led by the head of the fountain, unto a large and spacious field, as if it had been a bworld.
21 And I saw numberless concourses of people, many of whom were apressing forward, that they might obtain the bpath which led unto the tree by which I stood.
22 And it came to pass that they did come forth, and commence in the path which led to the tree.
23 And it came to pass that there arose a amist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were blost.
24 And it came to pass that I beheld others pressing forward, and they came forth and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron; and they did press forward through the mist of darkness, aclinging to the rod of iron, even until they did come forth and partake of the bfruit of the tree.
25 And after they had partaken of the fruit of the tree they did cast their eyes about as if they were aashamed.
26 And I also cast my eyes round about, and beheld, on the aother side of the river of water, a great and bspacious building; and it stood as it were in the cair, high above the earth.
27 And it was filled with people, both old and young, both male and female; and their manner of dress was exceedingly fine; and they were in the aattitude of bmocking and pointing their fingers towards those who had come at and were partaking of the fruit.
28 And after they had atasted of the fruit they were bashamed, because of those that were cscoffing at them; and they dfell away into forbidden paths and were lost.
29 And now I, Nephi, do not speak aall the words of my father.
30 But, to be short in writing, behold, he saw other multitudes pressing forward; and they came and caught hold of the end of the arod of iron; and they did press their way forward, continually holding fast to the rod of iron, until they came forth and fell down and partook of the fruit of the tree.
31 And he also saw other amultitudes feeling their way towards that great and spacious building.
32 And it came to pass that many were drowned in the adepths of the bfountain; and many were lost from his view, wandering in strange roads.
33 And great was the multitude that did enter into that strange building. And after they did enter into that building they did point the finger of ascorn at me and those that were partaking of the fruit also; but we heeded them not.
34 These are the words of my father: For as many as aheeded them, had fallen away.
35 And aLaman and Lemuel partook not of the fruit, said my father.
36 And it came to pass after my father had spoken all the words of his dream or vision, which were many, he said unto us, because of these things which he saw in a vision, he exceedingly feared for Laman and Lemuel; yea, he feared lest they should be cast off from the presence of the Lord.
37 And he did aexhort them then with all the feeling of a tender parent, that they would hearken to his words, that perhaps the Lord would be merciful to them, and not cast them off; yea, my father did preach unto them.
38 And after he had preached unto them, and also prophesied unto them of many things, he bade them to keep the commandments of the Lord; and he did cease speaking unto them.
| The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy. |
Sam...
Bless his heart...
He would have told them to stop sinning.......then He would have had to cancel His twatter account.
Come on, put up the link. Let’s follow this through. Scripture can’t contradict itself and I stand firm on my knowledge of God who personally sacrificed Himself for me.
Thanks, Ruru... because this applies to the skeptics too, of which we have a small but apparently indefatigable contingent on FR. Now they might just be wrong, having mindlessly adopted this from other preachers and not considered it, in which case the situation isn’t as dire. But some have dug in so emphatically and deeply that it looks like a cheering section for Satan has kicked in.
A lot of theological questions can be answered in Christianity by an observation that was made to me once by a fellow who wasn’t even a Christian. “Good is stronger than evil.”
James 2, Strong’s Bible with Dictionary
Bible Gateway
Bible Hub
USCCB Bible
Biblia.com
Zounds, I was never so bethump’d with words.
Anyhow here’s one, and it’s KJV too so you can’t complain.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
That sounds like it’s warning YOU, merciless buster.
Depends on who is deserving of mercy and whether or not it refers to compassion or a rapid dispatch. Leniency is not mercy, and oftentimes punishment is mercy. This verse, along with Hebrews 4:12 applies to all humanity, not just me and not just those who presume themselves teachers of the Word.
Remember what Jesus used to drive merchants out of the Temple on the Sabbath?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
